2012 Yamaha Models to be Announced

motokid wrote:

Carmmond wrote:

If they open the market up and stay with the 250X and offer a 400+ with close to the same specks on weight they could be looking at a big market.

erm...no.

Are you old enough to remember the fzr400 and fzr600?

Americans do not buy small displacement motorcycles.

That's why I'm guessing and hoping that the discontinued 250x means something larger is coming next model year.

It would be marketing suicide to offer both the 250x and something more prone to taking on the KTM and Husky machines offered.

(in my humble opinion)

Yes I'm sorry I am.... 45yrs old:) All I know is I have a couple of guys at work with full size bikes BMW, Harleys, Supersports that love my bike and want a smaller bike to toss around town and a 250 or 450X would be right up thier ally. The one with the BMW 1200RT would like to get a 250X yet this year for around town. Us that own the 250's may want to step up but the guys with the highway bikes still want a smaller bike to toss around in the city.

And don't forget the cheap insurance on the 250 and the starter bike for the new pep's.

Not only does Europe get the super cool looking WR125X (and R), but also the fuel injected XT660 bikes that come in R, X, and Tenere versions. We get the 250r/x and xt. That SUCKS.

http://www.yamaha-motor.eu/eu/products/motorcycles/adventure/xt660r.aspx?view=media#u=http://cdn.yamaha-motor.eu/product_assets/2011/XT660R/2011-Yamaha-XT660R-EU-Racing-Blue-Studio-001_gal_full.jpg&c=ymeGallery1&t=

http://www.yamaha-motor.eu/eu/products/motorcycles/index.aspx

Shoootr wrote:

Not only does Europe get the super cool looking WR125X (and R), but also the fuel injected XT660 bikes that come in R, X, and Tenere versions. We get the 250r/x and xt. That SUCKS.

http://www.yamaha-motor.eu/eu/products/motorcycles/adventure/xt660r.aspx?view=media#u=http://cdn.yamaha-motor.eu/product_assets/2011/XT660R/2011-Yamaha-XT660R-EU-Racing-Blue-Studio-001_gal_full.jpg&c=ymeGallery1&t=

http://www.yamaha-motor.eu/eu/products/motorcycles/index.aspx

Does not compare. The 125 WR looks very cheap, compared to a WR250R. You need to take a real life look at it. Nice bike, no question, but as soon as you want a sporty bike that can keep up with current competition enduros, there is no way around the WR250R. The 125 is a collection of cheap steel parts and quite a good engine. It is even heavier than the WR250R!

The 660 are touring bikes (all Italien made, BTW), feeling like a rubber boat due to their lousy suspension components. The extremely heavy 660 engine feels nice to ride, it has got good pull and makes one smile, but these are recreational bikes, not at all sports bikes. I really like my 2008 Tenere, but I did a lot of conversion work on it, especially replaced complete suspension components (see my HP just in case, linked at signature). A short time ago, when I had a possibilty for riding a 100% stock Tenere the first time after my conversion, I wondered why I ever bought this bike. Well, at least it looks quite nice. Which in my opinion does not apply for the oldfashioned X and R version, that simply look as like a 20 year old heavy enduro bike.

However, the big and heavy XT1200 ST is said to be really good under all kinds of usage. I have never ridden one, so I cannot tell, but I talked to several people confirming it handles great, even at offroad usage.

Phil (one more TW200 fanboy, BTW, but I would strictly suggest using an up to date engine)

Carmmond wrote:

Yes I'm sorry I am.... 45yrs old:) All I know is I have a couple of guys at work with full size bikes BMW, Harleys, Supersports that love my bike and want a smaller bike to toss around town and a 250 or 450X would be right up thier ally. The one with the BMW 1200RT would like to get a 250X yet this year for around town. Us that own the 250's may want to step up but the guys with the highway bikes still want a smaller bike to toss around in the city.

And don't forget the cheap insurance on the 250 and the starter bike for the new pep's.

I was an owner of an FZR400. I remember Motorcyclist magazine awarding it the motorcycle of the year award. USofA only got them for 3 years. Why? Because for about 400 dollars more people could get 600cc's instead of 400cc's.

All I'm saying is this, Yamaha would commit marketing suicide for the 250x if they also offered something larger like a 450x.

I would also question your idea that there's a large market for motards. There's a niche market for sure, but not a large market.
I would also question the idea of the "many" people who would buy a second bike just to have one to throw around town.

Sure, you might hear people say that, we all talk about how great it would be to have a stable full of bikes at our disposal.
The reality is people can't afford to have multiple bikes and pay multiple insurance premiums.


If the wr250x was "that attractive" Yamaha would not have discontinued the bike in USofA.

Just because we like it, doesn't mean the masses do.

Being a member of multiple forums that cater to supermoto style bikes, I can tell you that MOST people think a 250cc supermoto is simply too damn small in the horsepower department.

A shit-load of people immediately go for the outdated, heavier, uglier Suzuki DRZ 400sm for no other reason than it's got 400cc's and not 250 cc's.


It's a shame, but it's reality. 25 horse power in today's America is just not popular.

AU WR450F, same plate holder as our WRR/X

our friend Magiksc created this off that:



Now how fucking hard would it be for yamaha to do that????????????

However, as you know: http://www.ktm.com/at/supermoto/690-smc-eu.html
They are available, tested reliable and solid, low on fuel consumption, high on performance, 140kg (vs. 136kg for a WR250R including fuel), all up to date tech features, 63HP (EU).
I guess this could be a reason for Yamaha not to go into production of up to date big stroke dual sport models, especially since they know, their cheap but actually outdated heavy XT660 versions are not selling extremely well. And those mighty KTM dual sport bikes are even selling lower (though being much more expensive, due to lightweighted and high quality components and materials, compared to the 660 Yamaha). BTW I am pretty sure they are by far the best dual sport bikes KTM ever built.

Phil

I think the general HOPE among those pining for wr450x would be:

1) less maintenance required than a KTM
2) cheaper to maintain than a KTM
3) easier to get parts for than a KTM
4) hopefully cheaper to purchase than a KTM
(otherwise just get the KTM)


I have no idea if that wr450f is fuel injected, or if it has a 6 speed gearbox, or what the forks and swingarm can accept as far as modern sportbike sized wheels and tires.


Those three things might be why Yamaha doesn't supermoto out the F and sell it as an X.


Hopefully - as I've stated in previous posts, Yamaha is just waiting to get all the 250X's off the showroom floors before they introduce the next generation supermoto.

Hopefully.

Now how fucking hard would it be for yamaha to do that???????????? [/quote]

HMMM.... how hard would it be for ME to do that? 2012 fuel injected WR450f, plate it, SuMo tires and wheels. Then again the new FI version might not be any better on the highway than the carbed ones.

Guesstimate:

$8000 for the new 2012 wr450f
$1000-$1200 for street-sized wheels and brakes
$300 for street rubber


Plus - the 450f only has a 5 speed gear-box.


Difficult? Maybe not. Expensive? In my mind, yes.

Plus - the damned 450f only has a 2 gallon gas tank.

Think the X to a lot of people is a "want it" bike rather than a "buy it" bike.

Everyone loves the look, loves the idea, but most males think their manhoods will shrink or drop off by riding something with an engine that small....

Cold hard reality is simple.

I love my X. Have no plans at this time to sell it and find something else.

HOWEVER, when riding - my thoughts almost always swing 'round to thinking, if only this awesome little fun-machine had 10-15 more ponies at the rear wheel it's be PERFECT.


I'd trade 10,000 miles off the recommended valve adjustment/checks, 1000 miles off the recommended oil change interval, and the decreased rear tire life for 15 more hp without even thinking about it.

combo wrote:

AU WR450F, same plate holder as our WRR/X

Not street legal and has 5 Titanium valves. Short service intervals as well. But I still like it!

flatboarder wrote:

However, as you know: http://www.ktm.com/at/supermoto/690-smc-eu.html
They are available, tested reliable and solid, low on fuel consumption, high on performance, 140kg (vs. 136kg for a WR250R including fuel), all up to date tech features, 63HP (EU).
I guess this could be a reason for Yamaha not to go into production of up to date big stroke dual sport models, especially since they know, their cheap but actually outdated heavy XT660 versions are not selling extremely well. And those mighty KTM dual sport bikes are even selling lower (though being much more expensive, due to lightweighted and high quality components and materials, compared to the 660 Yamaha). BTW I am pretty sure they are by far the best dual sport bikes KTM ever built.

Phil

But good luck finding a dealer in S.E. WI. All the dealers in my area only deal with the dirt bikes and they dont want to deal with the SM..... Darn dumb call on their part but it's their call as a dealer.

I asked a trusted mechaninc about this, and his reply was it's incredibly difficult to get a new motorcycle engine approved for the American market. I guess the 250 engine we have is an engine that already existed in Japan with the required emissions, etc? Does that sound right?

All the bigger engines are off road only, and thus don't need to meet the extremely stringent on road standards.

To hear him tell it, that's the only (big) hurdle to introducing a larger dual sport machine here like the WR450.

Shoootr wrote:

The Super Tenere is sweet, but over a hundred pounds heavier, and $13000 !!! Not in the same class as the WEE STROM or the VERSYS. Glad they are offering it in the U.S. now.

Your right....it is a helluva lot better bike than the others you mention.

joenuclear wrote:

combo wrote:

AU WR450F, same plate holder as our WRR/X

Not street legal....

That one is street legal in Australia hence the indicators, tag etc, many of the KTM enduro 2t & 4T bikes are street legal here too.
the US has hard luck when it comes to bikes, at least you guys can easily own a lot more fun weapons

combo wrote:

joenuclear wrote:

combo wrote:

AU WR450F, same plate holder as our WRR/X

Not street legal....

That one is street legal in Australia hence the indicators, tag etc, many of the KTM enduro 2t & 4T bikes are street legal here too.
the US has hard luck when it comes to bikes, at least you guys can easily own a lot more fun weapons

Oops! Missed the turn signals. Thanks for the correction.

I guess this thread describes exactly why I went for the XT660X & ditched the WR
KTMs look great, but I have heard all sorts of horror stories about winter corrosion/electrics, not to mention pricey servicing, purchase cost etc. I nearly bought a plated WR450f with Distanzia tyres, low mileage. I downloded the owners manual & was shocked by the service interval. I think it was 200 hours (?????) for oil & the valves need attention on a monthly basis it seems........