School ??? Is there anything on our bikes made of Tool Steel

OK, my 13 yr old daughter has an assignment for her Engineering class. She has to show a real world application for, alloy, stainless steel, carbon steel and tool steel.

She wants to use my WR as an example of those types.

Alloy-- hubs
stainless - FMF muffler
carbon steel-- brake rotor


Is there anything visible on a WR250 that is made of tool steel????

Thanks,
Mark

I'm totally guessing right now, but here are some ideas:

- Handle bar?
- Footpegs?
- Some of the larger bolts?

For Aluminum, you might add the frame.

Not really..........tool steel is meant to be used in cutting tools as the alloy can hold an edge. You could say though tool steel was almost definitely used to make the bike (e.g. tool steel in die punches for chain, injection dies for plastic parts, etc.).

Chrispy: You don't think the piston rings are tool grade steel ?

Just asking... I'm not a metallurgist. ...but it was the only thing I could think of that if it were NOT tool grade steel, would not last.

P.S. That is so cool she is interested in Engineering. My wife should have been an engineer. Her father was a master mecanic and she spent her childhood watching him take apart, fix, repair anything mechanical. I consult her before I start ( it's in our wedding vows actually).

I buy stuff for the toys (bikes, Rhino, truck etc) and she's got it all installed and dialed in AND TESTED before I even get home ! It's not fair I tell ya !

I fell into it ironically from being in the M/C business (and the love motorcycles). We have some VERY VERY impressive female engineers in the aerospace business.

Thanks guys,


Yes, I was very impressed that she was taking an engineering class in 8th grade, hell I was impressed the school had an engineering class in 8th grade.


Is it a safe guess that actual tools are tool steel? Like a sledge hammer or a pair of channel lock pliers?

Tool steel seems to be the only one that is confusing her and I'm not much help.


Thanks,
Mark

Oh and thanks for the frame note. She's added that to the part about aluminum.

X-Racer wrote:

Chrispy: You don't think the piston rings are tool grade steel ?

Just asking... I'm not a metallurgist. ...but it was the only thing I could think of that if it were NOT tool grade steel, would not last.

I think tool steel wouldn't have the proper amount of "spring" that a piston ring needs. On modern engines, it's usually the face coat (hard chrome, plasma, etc) on the rings that gives it the wear properties.

KC0514 wrote:

Is it a safe guess that actual tools are tool steel? Like a sledge hammer or a pair of channel lock pliers?

Any tool that needs to hold an edge (cutter / shear blades, etc.) or is subject to severe loads (extrusion dies, etc) is generally where tool steel is used .

The ball bearings in the hubs and needles in the swing arm pivots are most likely a grade of tool steel. I doubt they are 440C stainless and tool grade alloys are pretty common in bearings.

Other than that you're probably SOL for saying there is any tool steel on the bike.

Maybe the tool kit with the screw driver blade being made out of shock resistant tool steel--google it and see if that meets your needs.

From what I remember...steel is classified by the amount of carbon in it.Cast Iron (white and grey) having the most carbon.
Less than iron but,still high carbon, is considered tool steel.
Less again is regular steel.
Stainless steel being a steel alloy (nickel and cobalt) in the mix.
Alloys being a mixture in general.
You would need to know the % of carbon to classify it correctly.
If it is hardened/ heat treated afterwords...probably safe to say tool steel (axles, bearings, rings, valves, some nuts and bolts..etc)
The more carbon the harder the steel.
The less carbon the more durable/ mallible the steel.
Alloys can increase durability, corrosion resistance...but are never as hard as their higher carbon brethren.
Hope that can help.

...and I would guess that the tools in the kit are made from a steel alloy such as chromium vanadium, not actually high carbon tool steel. (I dont have a tool kit...just guessing)

mucker wrote:

...and I would guess that the tools in the kit are made from a steel alloy such as chromium vanadium, not actually high carbon tool steel. (I dont have a tool kit...just guessing)

You have much more faith in the stock tools than I do.. I suspect they are made of chinese pot steel. Aka, random melted scraps of imported America cars poured into a mold.

I'm an enginerd, maybe I can help. Some of this was stated earlier.
Alloy=mixture tool steel, carbon steel, aluminum are all alloys (as used in bikes, you can have pure aluminum which is not an alloy but it's properties are not good for most applications). Aluminum is availible in hundereds of different alloys. 6xxx and 7xxx are commonly used high stength AL alloys. After market handlebars are an example. The wheels are an aluminum alloy as well (often 6061-T6 or 7050-T6). The T6 is the temper (this is sometimes referred to as the heat treating).

Tool steel: Steels used in tooling applications (cutters, dies, punches, etc). There are many sub categories of these (oil quenched: o1, o2 etc), (air quenched A1, A2), high speed tool steel (w2, w4), shock resistants (s series) and this goes on and on. These steels have a high carbon content and as such can be hardened for greater strength. Most have good wear properties. On a motorcycle, the parts closest to a tool steel would be the cam shims and the balls/races of bearings (although those are called bearing steel and are typically harder than tool steel). All machined parts on the bike were cut with tool steel or carbide insert cutters.

Carbon steel: This is a misnomer. All steel contains carbon. What they are probably referring to is "low carbon steel" aka "mild steel" Parts such as handlebars, steel brackets, exhaust, will fall into this category. These steels are typically easilly welded, formed, and are cheap.

Stainless: Similar to mild and tool steel except that it has a higher chromium content. This makes it stainless. The screws for the plastics are all stainless. Often spokes are stainless (on the WR they may be coated low carbon steel).

Hope that helps.

Here is the final product: Remember she is 13 and this is her very first class in Engineering.

Awesome! If she doesn't get top marks for that, I will personally ride down from the Canadian hinterland and have a chat with her teacher

Well done. A+!

Being a tool and die maker (machinist) I work with tool steel. Generally any steel that is required to be hard, bearings for example, are tool steel. Piston rings are. Rotors. Sprockets. Hardbars won't be because the need to be tough but still flexible or they would just snap. Tool steels are very hard yet brittle. Alloys like cr-mo are tough yet durable.

My $0.02. Cheers

KC0514 wrote:

Here is the final product: Remember she is 13 and this is her very first class in Engineering.

Where else can you discuss cool bikes AND get to brag about your daughter!

Just don't let her hang out with SheWolf and her chainsaw...

Pretty impressive presentation by a 13 year old kid! Our favorite bike aside, well done!