How Good IS that Warranty?

Unfortunately, I'm about to find out the answer to that question.

I was riding at Mattawa today with some friends, and my motor started dying whenever I let it go to idle. (Mattawa is gnarly desert riding with very technical, rocky canyons, steep hill climbs, and lots of sand. Washington State residents probably know where it is. My first thought (and that of my riding buddies) was the vacuum operated fuel pump in my IMS fuel tank, since it felt like fuel starvation, and I was running about 2 gallons in the 4.7 gallon tank to keep the weight down. It would die when I closed the throttle on a down hill or at a stop, then after a few minutes start up again. There were no indicator lights to tell me about a temperature or oil pressure issue, even though those lights appear to be working normally by coming on for a bit when you turn on the key before starting. Anyway I restarted it about a half dozen times and limped it the eight miles or so back to the car with the motor quitting at some fairly inconvenient times (as in two thirds up a very steep, sandy climb). I loaded it on my trailer and brought it back over the pass to trouble shoot my fuel system at home. When I got it home, I found this!



Notice the bash plate is not even dented there. The bike has been dropped (all low speed get offs on single track or in the desert), and the right peg is slightly bent from clipping a rock (not a get off), the plastic frisby has been gone from the case since like the first ride on single track, and there are a few scratches, so I'm afraid Yamaha is going to say "tough luck that's accident damage." However, I did check the oil in the then existent window before I loaded the bike on the trailer for this ride this morning after I cleaned and lubed the chain. Even if the thing did pop out in a drop (and I'm talking at a stand still here), it shouldn't have. It's a dirt bike for crying out loud, and that thing should be tougher than that! And even then, the damn idiot lights should come on before the motor stops from lack of lube! The bike is a 2010 model bought new in May 2011 from now out-of-business Renton Motorcycle, and it only has 1859 miles on it. &*%$#@!! We'll see what another dealer says.

You know, the more I think about it, the more I'm confident that Yamaha has to cover this. It's actually lucky that thing popped out at relatively low speed on dirt. Imagine the un-annunciated dumping of the oil all over the rear tire followed by the seizing of the motor at 70 in heavy traffic on the freeway. That would likely not have ended well.

That can't be good. Good luck with the dealer.

Idk to much, but I feel like that is something you don't just replace with a new piece of glass...if they do choose to take care of you I would make sure they take look for any other damage it may have caused and they clean it out as well.

Corycy wrote:

Idk to much, but I feel like that is something you don't just replace with a new piece of glass...if they do choose to take care of you I would make sure they take look for any other damage it may have caused and they clean it out as well.

The motor seized up from lack of lubrication. It will need a new motor or at the very least a major overhaul.

agreed. Even in a *moderate* fall the glass shouldn't just pop out like that. Must be a production error in my view (imperfections in the glass). Can't see any other explanation for it.

I would ask for a new motor/new internals for sure.

Ah, the way I read it. It was just cutting out, not locked up. Either way I don't think yamaha will sell a motor or give a motor for a replacement, they only give parts.

Corycy wrote:

Ah, the way I read it. It was just cutting out, not locked up. Either way I don't think yamaha will sell a motor or give a motor for a replacement, they only give parts.

Not completely locked up at this point, it sounds like. There's probably some oil still in there, but when it was asked to work, it would sieze up. Let it cool a bit and ride it easy and it was able to overcome the increased friction enough to keep running. That's my theory, anyway. No matter what, if you've got a motor that was without lubrication long enough to make it quit running, you've got some issues internally.

Oh, and to the OP, I don't believe there is an oil light of any kind on this bike.

Thanks for the words of encouragement.

The more I think about it, the more I think Yamaha owes me a new motor. The window thing popping out is bad enough, but the lack of a low oil pressure light cinches it. The engine did seize to a stop. The fact that I can turn it over now does not mean that the bearings, cylinder, piston, etc. are not toast.

My going in position is that I want a new motor, not a tear down and overhaul. There's no way they can look at that hole and the dry oil sump and tell me with a straight face that the engine internals are not damaged.

We'll see what I find out tomorrow when the dealership is open.

Me2 is correct about the oil pressure light. There is a coolant temp and "engine trouble" warning light. I don't know off the top of my head if there is an oil pressure switch that feeds the computer and thus the engine trouble light. Apparently not if the way it performed is any indication.

Sorry to see this happen bud, something for me to add to my pre-check list I guess....keep us informed

JMBueller wrote:

Me2 is correct about the oil pressure light. There is a coolant temp and "engine trouble" warning light. I don't know off the top of my head if there is an oil pressure switch that feeds the computer and thus the engine trouble light. Apparently not if the way it performed is any indication.

Everything I found points to no oil pressure sender and thus no light, error code, etc.

Speaking as an ex-service advisor at a Yamaha dealership, here's how I would approach this situation. First off, from the picture there does not appear to be any obvious signs of an external hit unless it was directly on the glass. If so there may be some shards in the case. I think the sight glass inserts from the back of the case cover. If you truly feel there is no possibility of any tipover related cause, take the bike in and give the Service Advisor as many details as possible. It's not your fault you bought the bike at a defunct shop. If you do not have a rapport with another shop TRY to stifle your anger, politely state the facts to the Service Advisor. Remember he may be thinking the 3 B's of a disgruntled Service Advisor: I Didn't build it, didn't buy it, didn't break it. You are building a new relationship, you need him to be your friend. Maybe not right but that's the way it is. Show you are a good guy and take care of your equipment. Tell him or her you left it as is (dirty) so they could inspect it.
In 10+ years in Service I have never seen a sight glass pop out. Yeah, it is bullshit if the glass popped out and shouldn't have happened, BUT keep in mind nobody did it on purpose. Mechanical things break. If it is a defect in materials or workmanship from the factory (the specific definition of what a warranty covers) Yamaha will cover it. If there is a gray area MOST LIKELY they will also help out. This may consist of parts only, they may pick up the entire repair. Keep in mind that the decision is the Yamaha factories, not the dealer. You will not get an entire new engine because they are not available. Replacement parts installed by a local technician (who wants your future business for his dealership; or should) will be as good and accurate as an assembly line engine, if not better.
Yamaha's area Technical Service Advisor is a great guy, as are all the phone guys. Yamaha is one of the few companies left that actually have warranty goodwill money, and are truly interested in customer service. I can't count all the times that I presented a situation like this to Yamaha and they goodwilled it with the instructions to tell the customer that Yamaha appreciates their business. I really have the feeling you are going to be O.K. If you were at my shop I would do all I could for you.
Since RMC closed, have you got a rapport with any other shop? Where are you planning on taking it?

PS Sorry I saw this post so late, I hope you see it before Tuesday; I'll keep an eye on the forum tonight til about 11:30-12 if you have any questions, and will check back again tomorrow at about 7 am.

railbird wrote:

Speaking as an ex-service advisor at a Yamaha dealership, here's how I would approach this situation. First off, from the picture there does not appear to be any obvious signs of an external hit unless it was directly on the glass. If so there may be some shards in the case. I think the sight glass inserts from the back of the case cover. If you truly feel there is no possibility of any tipover related cause, take the bike in and give the Service Advisor as many details as possible. It's not your fault you bought the bike at a defunct shop. If you do not have a rapport with another shop TRY to stifle your anger, politely state the facts to the Service Advisor. Remember he may be thinking the 3 B's of a disgruntled Service Advisor: I Didn't build it, didn't buy it, didn't break it. You are building a new relationship, you need him to be your friend. Maybe not right but that's the way it is. Show you are a good guy and take care of your equipment. Tell him or her you left it as is (dirty) so they could inspect it.
In 10+ years in Service I have never seen a sight glass pop out. Yeah, it is bullshit if the glass popped out and shouldn't have happened, BUT keep in mind nobody did it on purpose. Mechanical things break. If it is a defect in materials or workmanship from the factory (the specific definition of what a warranty covers) Yamaha will cover it. If there is a gray area MOST LIKELY they will also help out. This may consist of parts only, they may pick up the entire repair. Keep in mind that the decision is the Yamaha factories, not the dealer. You will not get an entire new engine because they are not available. Replacement parts installed by a local technician (who wants your future business for his dealership; or should) will be as good and accurate as an assembly line engine, if not better.
Yamaha's area Technical Service Advisor is a great guy, as are all the phone guys. Yamaha is one of the few companies left that actually have warranty goodwill money, and are truly interested in customer service. I can't count all the times that I presented a situation like this to Yamaha and they goodwilled it with the instructions to tell the customer that Yamaha appreciates their business. I really have the feeling you are going to be O.K. If you were at my shop I would do all I could for you.
Since RMC closed, have you got a rapport with any other shop? Where are you planning on taking it?

PS Sorry I saw this post so late, I hope you see it before Tuesday; I'll keep an eye on the forum tonight til about 11:30-12 if you have any questions, and will check back again tomorrow at about 7 am.

I've been a mechanic earlier in life, and my current job requires diplomacy in much more tense situations than this, so I know what you are saying.

I dropped the bike off with Hinshaw Motorcycles in Auburn this morning, and the service manager said he had never seen this happen before. He'll be getting back to me in 2 to 3 days after he has a chance to have the Yamaha rep look at it. We'll see where it goes next.

JMBueller,
Sounds like the wheels are in motion. I'll bet all the techs came out to look at your bike when you dropped it off (unusual carnage is always fun). Like I said, I've never seen this either. This will probably work in your favor with Yamaha. I was offering the dealer's perspective in my post, you seem more than qualified to deal with them if you have had experience in a shop. Apologies if you felt I was talking down to you; perhaps my post will be of benefit to another forum member. I'll look forward to updates.

railbird wrote:

JMBueller,
Sounds like the wheels are in motion. I'll bet all the techs came out to look at your bike when you dropped it off (unusual carnage is always fun). Like I said, I've never seen this either. This will probably work in your favor with Yamaha. I was offering the dealer's perspective in my post, you seem more than qualified to deal with them if you have had experience in a shop. Apologies if you felt I was talking down to you; perhaps my post will be of benefit to another forum member. I'll look forward to updates.

No apology necessary. Good advice is always welcome. My main concern now is how long will I be dirt-bikeless? Bad things happen when I'm bikeless. I sat on a new KTM 350 EXC-F in the showroom and got all twitchy. Not good!

Realistically, teardown and parts list today or tomorrow, 2-3 days for the ok from Yamaha, week to get parts, you are riding next weekend.

railbird wrote:

Realistically, teardown and parts list today or tomorrow, 2-3 days for the ok from Yamaha, week to get parts, you are riding next weekend.

I think you mean optimistically.........

It's my experience, that warranties are designed to sell more product...rather than provide peace of mind and reliability.
Honour in production is rare.
A good warrany doesnt , necessarily, make a product more reliable.
Cost of ownership is everything in this economy...while warranty only implies value.
I've seen many warranties leaving customers disappointed...you buy what you buy.
I've also seen a few saved by the warranty.
...but not enough for me to put real value into my decision.
Good reputation first...if they honour a warranty...bonus.

Honestly, I'd be happier in a way without a warranty. I'd have the engine on my bench and torn down by now. Waiting sucks.

Well, I just heard from the service manager at Hinshaw Motorcycles. Answer from the Yamaha rep: That was pushed in so you're SOL. There is no evidence that it was pushed in other than the fact that it is in the case. I politely, but strongly expressed my disappointment in Yamaha if that is their final word. The service manager was very sympathetic to my plight and is re-engaging Yamaha to try to get a more favorable outcome. They are tearing down the engine for me to see how cooked it is. Stay tuned for round 2.

Finally talked directly to the factory rep. He offered me $500 for customer goodwill if i agree to not trade the bike in, but he still believes the thing was punched in although there's no evidence of an impact on the case. I told myself that if Yamaha covered half, I was keeping the bike, but we're not there. I can understand their position although I disagree. The dealer has been very good and tried to help me out. Interestingly, my insurance company is coming through now ( minus the $1000 deductable, ouch). So, I'm joining the orange oompa-loompas by doing a deal on a 350 EXC-F.

I'm keeping my WR (at least for now). But I got one of these now:


350 EXC-F

Nice KTM!

From everything I read herein your thread and about all the fuel pump issues it seems like Yamaha tries to blame as much as it can on the owner. I read more than one story where they told people with bad pumps it was because the filter was plugged and that ruined the pump and it was not Yamaha's fault.

nice ktm. how's the maintenance schedule on them these days?