How much oil? (Yeah, I know, stupid question.)

Here's the deal. The manual says 1.3 L without oil filter replacement; 1.4 L with filter replacement. The engine is stamped 1300cc (1.3 L). One would expect this to be the total capacity.

I did my first oil change (with filter) on my new-to-me bike, and decided to follow the manual (1400cc) instead of the number stamped on the case. Oil is at the top of the sight glass. Is the manual wrong?

Owner's Manual section on changing the oil:

11. Start the engine, and then let it idle for several minutes while checking it for oil leakage. If oil is leaking, immediately turn the engine off and check for the cause.

12. Turn the engine off, wait a few minutes until the oil settles, and then check the oil level and correct it if necessary.

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If you didn't do this, you actually put too little oil in the engine.
.

ramz wrote:

Owner's Manual section on changing the oil:

11. Start the engine, and then let it idle for several minutes while checking it for oil leakage. If oil is leaking, immediately turn the engine off and check for the cause.

12. Turn the engine off, wait a few minutes until the oil settles, and then check the oil level and correct it if necessary.

-----------------

If you didn't do this, you actually put too little oil in the engine.
.

Yup. Did it. Still high.

No chance of too little oil. I measured precisely.

Did you change your oil while hot and absolutely ensure to drain every drop...or just pull the plug and wait for it to stop dripping?

mucker wrote:

Did you change your oil while hot and absolutely ensure to drain every drop...or just pull the plug and wait for it to stop dripping?

Ran for a couple minutes. Drained. Tipped bike front and back to get all oil.

Same thing. Changed filter and put 1,4L and it's too high. 1,3 should be ok. I think that we should not worry. Bike can push out exceess.

hell0men wrote:

Same thing. Changed filter and put 1,4L and it's too high. 1,3 should be ok. I think that we should not worry. Bike can push out exceess.

Thanks for the reply. I'm really starting to think the manual is incorrect.

Anyone else measure their oil? How much do you put in?

Looking at HighFive's tutorial (http://www.wrrdualsport.com/tech-guide/maintenance/93-oilchange), he measures 1300cc for a full change with filter. Anyone put 1400cc in and get a correct sight glass reading?

Why do people care so much about the precise volume of oil in the engine?

Sure, knowing approximately how much oil you should make sure you have on hand before choosing to do your oil change is handy, but the amount of oil the engine needs is the amount of oil that fills it to the full line.... A few cc's more or less than the amount listed in the manual is totally irrelevant.

KLRchickie wrote:

Why do people care so much about the precise volume of oil in the engine?

Sure, knowing approximately how much oil you should make sure you have on hand before choosing to do your oil change is handy, but the amount of oil the engine needs is the amount of oil that fills it to the full line.... A few cc's more or less than the amount listed in the manual is totally irrelevant.

The reasons I measure my oil:

• Typically more reliable than sight glass
  
• Not all of my bikes have had a sight glass
  
• Much easier than sight glass (I'd love to know how people balance this bike completely upright, hold a funnel, and pour the oil)
  
• At times when I have not measured (on other bikes) I have overfilled due to oil getting hung up on gears as it drains into case
  

The reasons I care about too much or too little:

• These bikes hold very little oil, so +/- 100cc is almost 10% (between 7.1% and 7.6% depending on whether you believe the manual or not)
  
• Too little oil causes excessive wear and heat
  
• Too much oil can cause excessive crank case pressure causing leaks in various gaskets
  

Yes, the wrong amount of oil, either way, is bad - but how much is enough is still measured by level. Yes, you have to make sure the oil drains down properly before checking, and two people make the final level check go a whole lot better.

Variations in crank case drainage from one oil change to the next can make a huge difference in the amount of oil needed to fill to the full line, making volume much less reliable than level checking.

I'm not trying to be an annoying know-it-all, I just have always been puzzled by people that think that volume is more important than level.

I guess it all depends on your perspective.

With engines, I trust numbers, not eyeballing it. I've never trusted the hash marks on the axle blocks for keeping the rear wheel straight either.

But, you're right, there's enough margin of error in the oil high/low marks that eyeballing it is possible if you're more inclined to that (and have a friend to help).

The point though is that the level of oil in the crank case is what is important to your engine. Too high or too low is bad --- exact number of oil droplets is irrelevant. (I'm a Mechanical Engineer, trust me - I like numbers & precision! )

However, I'll back off, before I too much.

emoose wrote:

Much easier than sight glass (I'd love to know how people balance this bike completely upright, hold a funnel, and pour the oil)

This thing is so light I have no problems kneeling beside it while I hold it upright with one hand. And I'm a 62-year old grandpa
You don't have it to hit it exactly right on on the first go. Get close, check, add a bit as necessary.

You DO NOT hold bike level, pour in oil, while using funnel, AND while looking at sight glass all at the same time.

The bike holds approximately 1.4 quarts of oil.

Pour in one quart without a care in the world.

Pour in about 1/4 of second quart.

Put your cap on the fill hole and start bike. Let run for 5 seconds then shut off and check for leaks around seals/bolts.

Now check sight glass.

Until you've actually run the engine the oil level reading won't be accurate in sight glass.

It might actually take 4 or 5 additions of oil into bike to get level correct, but with the sight glass you know you're good.

You don't have to be an 8 armed acrobat to do it. Just patient and interested in doing it right.

sturgeon wrote:

This thing is so light I have no problems kneeling beside it while I hold it upright with one hand. And I'm a 62-year old grandpa
You don't have it to hit it exactly right on on the first go. Get close, check, add a bit as necessary.

I guess I'm less coordinated than I thought, because I have a helluva time doing both.

Oh, well. To end the debate on how to fill the oil, can we get back to what's driving me nuts: is the manual correct or not? Yes, I know I'm a crazy anal OCD whack-a-loon, but the idea that the manual could be incorrect is making me insane.

emoose wrote:

sturgeon wrote:

This thing is so light I have no problems kneeling beside it while I hold it upright with one hand. And I'm a 62-year old grandpa
You don't have it to hit it exactly right on on the first go. Get close, check, add a bit as necessary.

I guess I'm less coordinated than I thought, because I have a helluva time doing both.

Oh, well. To end the debate on how to fill the oil, can we get back to what's driving me nuts: is the manual correct or not? Yes, I know I'm a crazy anal OCD whack-a-loon, but the idea that the manual could be incorrect is making me insane.

To be clear, I don't fill the oil while balancing the bike, as motokid says. But balancing it to check the oil is easy. As for what the manual says vs what is, I add until I can see some in the sight glass (i.e. above the lower line). Then I go for a short ride, come back, let it settle for a couple of minutes, then add more until it's just below the upper line. I don't think I've ever tried to measure it accurately, on any bike I've ever owned.

...not sure about this manual stuff.
I change my oil and filter by the book yesterday and it took a good bit more than 1.4 quarts.
That said I went by the line on the Rotella jug, I didn't use a measuring cup.
Still it took a good cup full more than I expected to get it to show correctly in the site glass...

Rapid Dog wrote:

...not sure about this manual stuff.
I change my oil and filter by the book yesterday and it took a good bit more than 1.4 quarts.
That said I went by the line on the Rotella jug, I didn't use a measuring cup.
Still it took a good cup full more than I expected to get it to show correctly in the site glass...

???

Did you start the bike up after the 1.4 quarts and let it run a minute or two to get all the oil circulating and filling in all the places it might not go when you first pour it into the bike?


That - and I'd never trust the markings on the oil jugs to be that specific.

edit to add - but not insinuating - was bike standing straight up when using site glass and not on side stand?

Quote :

I change my oil and filter by the book...

...dude, I wasn't born yesterday.

I always change my oil using a front wheel stand so the bike is vertical both draining and filling. I did purchase an x model resently that had been filled to the site glass level while on the side stand. Don't know how many miles it had been run this way but it seems fine. so it may not be important if one overfills this engine some. I would say that more is better then less. I always change the filter also. My two cents worth. Going to the British rallye at New Ulm, Tx. tomarrow. The WR's will not be there. Berwyn

First off..I see people getting confused with quarts and liters in this thread..they are not the same thing..which would seem obvious to me. They are close, but not exact.

Second..I have not read the manual cover to cover, but in my engine rebuilding experience, they typically mean, 1.4 L when motor is bone dry, like after a rebuild, and 1.3 liters there after.

A new filter probably does hold that 0.1 liter, BUT, no one doing an oil change is ever getting the full amount of oil in the bike out. You can drain it till the cows come home, but there are so many nooks and crevices that oil will stay in, as well as the static coating on all internal surfaces, like piston/cylinder wall, bearing surfaces, etc, it is not all coming out.

Personally, I measure out the 1.3 liters, 700 cc and 600 cc respectively, of oil, pour in bike, button up bike, put away tools...and go ride. Never had an issue and never anticipate one.

^^ Above info has hit the nail right on the head on pretty much all accounts..... So really the only confusion here for me is that us Aussies spell the word "litres v's liters" different to you Yankies.....otherwise all good mate ! LOL.

And also just to add, regardless of all other debate, that my own 250R also "only" takes 1.3 metric litres - right on the dot....

By this i mean after a good hot drain - ie, sump plug out for approx 10 mins, then also with a few "leans" of the bike from side to side + a new filter. I then add the accurately measured 1.3L of new oil. So when i run the engine up, i first just look at sight glass for the initial slight drop in level, which indicates oil pump pick up & new filter fill - this usually happens with-in approx 10~20 sec's. I then have a quick look for any possible leaks. At this stage if i shut the engine off, let it sit for approx 10 mins, then check the sight glass with level bike, my reading is approx just above the 1/2 way mark = all good. Further to this if i was to then check the oil level 1st thing in the morning - stone cold after sitting all night - then the sight glass reading with a level bike will actually be on, or even a bee's dick above the MAX level mark - so basically almost full oil only showing in the sight glass. ( So really still all ok at this rate ).

On the "virgin" oil & filter change from buying my bike new, i pretty much poured the "listed" 1.4L metric total into the engine. This immediately went above & beyond the sight glass max level - showing oil only in the total sight glass area. ( At which i drained the slight overfill back out - not really as a concern of it being "overfull" as such, but more so as i like to be able to clearly see a "set" level showing in the sight glass ).....

So in stating all of the above, i quickly came to the conclusion at the time that the factory listed spec's for the oil fill capacity would have been in regards to a totally "dry" fill engine, or in other words as from the initial engine assembly. ( As mentioned by DougZ ).

In summary i'm not overly anal in regards to this - but really it's pretty simple stuff once you work out the exact needs of your own machine. I mean at the end of the day the sight glass doesn't lie - so it's almost 100% "idiot proof" so to speak....
For me as a qualified Auto Mech it's just habbit / second nature to want / need to know all the relevent spec's - and really i like to be spot on with my own personal "toys" & investments.... For my Bike 1.3L is bang on the money - but professional experience lets me realize that 100ml either side of this is never going to cause any long term issues.

The last good reason that i like to measure the 1.3L is that when i purchase the FS Yamalube 15w50 in the 4L container this will give me 3 full oil changes straight up = very simple & convieniant. ( And before anyone jumps on me about the seemingly "thick" viscoscity of that oil, please note that i'm located in the full on tropic's, so this weight is needed & all good ).

Cheers guys.

^^^ lol...... Just realized that in my hasty wisdom of posting here that i have "dug up" a 10 month old thread !

Although even that it's all "old" news, i only had to go down a few lines on this "front page" to pick up this thread.....LOL
Seems very obvious looking now that not much new action happens in the "oil & filters" section hey.

Anyway that's my "new guy" / piss poor excuse, so i'll run with it ! ( Maybe this will re-spark the ignition of pointless oil debate - lol ).

Cheers.

Just change the oil in my wrx and after a good drain, I put 1.3L of fresh oil and a new filter in the bike, warmed her up again, let her cool a bit, and checked the level with the bike being level, and the little window is still full.
Stupid manual says to put 1.3L of oil every change, or 1.4L with a new filter.

G'day mate ^^ I bet that you will find that it's proberly about 100ml overfull....In any case at 1.3L it would never be over "too much" to cause any real concerns. It is pretty easy to just do a "controlled release" at the drain plug to drop it to the correct level - so that you will know exactly how far you actually did go over.

This way you will then know exactly how much to measure in next time - but i'd say that approx 1.2L will see your level spot on... After another couple of changes with my bike again now since my last post here, i've now found that 1.2L after a good drain is spot on to put my oil level in the sight glass right in the middle of the range. I actually found that if i put in the full 1.3L the level will fully cover the sight glass, only just - so approx 1.25L is proberly at the MAX level.

Anyway it would be nice to know if you can verify what you end up with if possible. Not that it's a massive deal, just more so out of curiousty between our bikes and others.

Cheers.