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 Throttle On Off at idle

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littlegroovy




PostSubject: Re: Throttle On Off at idle   Mon Jan 02, 2012 12:51 am

duanew wrote:
littlegroovy wrote:
Duanew - I checked the diagnostics. I'm at a "16" on idle. Are you saying don't bother with accessing the TPS sensor and instead simply turn the idle screw to increase the idle and re-check the diagnostic until I get as close to 19 as possible?

No. The idle should be adjusted first using the idle screw. This is because the idle adjustment can affect the TPS adjustments later on. It is probably fine, but you can use the CO mode to check the RPM at idle and get it close to what the manual says what the idle rpm is. The service manual specs it at 1450-1650 rpm.

I had originally used the actual voltage at the TPS to adjust the TPS, but it is probably easier to the diagnostic mode to verify the adjustments. A value of 16 at idle can be very snatchy, but a value of 18 or 19 can be much smoother.


Update: I made the change on the TPS setting from 16 to 19.

Net result: "Snatchiness" much better. No regrets making the change whatsoever.

Details:
I took my bike to the local Yamaha service. They made the change from 16 to 19 for an hour's worth of labor. The service guy said "Man, the TPS was really hard and awkward to get to but we did it." They also had to check the service manual to see if California emissions would allow them to make this change and indeed it was within the acceptable range.

I took a two-hour off road test drive at a local OHV park with steep trails both wide and single track.

I found the snatchiness of the throttle much improved at low speeds requiring more technical riding. There is still some on/off sensation but since the idle now engages and moves the bike forward at low speeds, when I slightly increase the throttle to accelerate, the "on" surge isn't as drastic -- much smoother. This makes ii much easier to feather the throttle on tricky terrain.

The biggest/best change, however, is when I turn "off" the throttle (i.e. let off the throttle) the engine braking is less drastic because the higher TPS setting allows the bike to roll in idle better (rather than the super-hard engine braking I experienced before). And, I found I was able to stay in a higher gear (2nd or 3rd) on some tricky terrain which further reduces the snatchiness that one would experience in first gear.

So, overall, I am really thrilled to have better performance for the technical riding. I do wonder what would happen if I went to a 20 or 21 setting and whether it would improve the on/off even more for my type of riding (any thoughts duanew?). But I will stick with this setting for a while because I don't want to mess with a good thing.

Thanks duanew for leading the charge! I still marvel at the power of the internet to connect and share information among like-minded, like-hobbied people.



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duanew




PostSubject: Re: Throttle On Off at idle   Tue Jan 03, 2012 1:42 pm

littlegroovy wrote:
So, overall, I am really thrilled to have better performance for the technical riding. I do wonder what would happen if I went to a 20 or 21 setting and whether it would improve the on/off even more for my type of riding (any thoughts duanew?). But I will stick with this setting for a while because I don't want to mess with a good thing.

I don't think that going to 20 or 21 will help anything. I am not sure of what all is going on here without knowing what the fuel output graph is like stock around idle. I would believe that it would increase the fuel at idle even more but you have a chance of going over 100 at full throttle. I am not sure what the consequences of this is.
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kdrp




PostSubject: Re: Throttle On Off at idle   Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:22 pm

Sorry to bring an old thread back but I'm really bothered by this throttle jerkiness. I was curious how exactly the voltage was adjusted on the tps. I'm in the process of taking the security torx out though sadly I've managed to strip one... :( Not sure how I will remove it. I was going to adjust the voltage and then the tps setting to about 19 hoping that would cure my issue.

I love the bike but that issue seems so severe that I've been ignoring it and riding my other bike lately.
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NAL250R




PostSubject: Re: Throttle On Off at idle   Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:30 pm

Just curious, how many miles are on your bike? Mine was really jerky at first, but seems to be getting better now that I have about 900 miles on it. I did set my TPS to 17-100 when it was new, but I really could not tell a difference from the stock setting which I think was 16-98. I tried the TPS set with the lower value at 19 and it didn't improve the jerkiness. Also when set at 19 the upper value was 101, I did read somewhere that you should not be over 100. Not sure if that is true.
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kdrp




PostSubject: Re: Throttle On Off at idle   Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:51 am

I've got about about 6800 miles on the bike at this point. I've always used the clutch before to compensate for the throttle. Recently I tried a bit of offroading where it really showed itself to be an incredible nuisance.
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kdrp




PostSubject: Re: Throttle On Off at idle   Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:28 pm

Well after fighting with that second security torx I managed to finagle it out with a knife and hammer... :) Sadly however I didn't realize at the time how to adjust the voltage. Turns out that all I had to do was loosen the screws rather than remove them. Just changing the angle of the TPS adjusts the voltage. baldy

I'm waiting for a friend to come over to help with the adjustment, it will be much easier with 2 people no doubt. I'll let you know how it feels afterward.
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bradrh




PostSubject: tps range   Wed May 09, 2012 5:05 pm

Rotating the TPS changes both the upper and lower reading, correct? Mine is at 16 & 99 so it would appear that I have no where to go.
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oic0

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PostSubject: Re: Throttle On Off at idle   Wed May 09, 2012 5:21 pm

kdrp wrote:
I've got about about 6800 miles on the bike at this point. I've always used the clutch before to compensate for the throttle. Recently I tried a bit of offroading where it really showed itself to be an incredible nuisance.

Ive been having the opposite problem. I basically just treat the bike like it will stall if it drops bellow 3 or 4k rpms. I never let it idle around at low rpms, I pull the clutch and coast. Your hand gets tired but you get used to it.
Then I get on my KX500 and have a hard time turning it off. The KX is super smooth at low rpms but twitchy as heck if you ride it with the RPMs up like I have to do to smooth out the WR. Uggggg.... Hard to transition to riding them in completely different ways.
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mucker

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PostSubject: Re: Throttle On Off at idle   Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:48 pm

BUMP

So, how goes the fix?...
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slapcorn

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PostSubject: Re: Throttle On Off at idle   Fri Jun 15, 2012 7:30 pm

Can you do this by knocking on the black chunk in the counter clockwise direction without loosening those two screws? getting to them is impossible and I don't know how you people are doing it. I'm just going to bash it and pray.
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slapcorn

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PostSubject: Re: Throttle On Off at idle   Fri Jun 15, 2012 7:46 pm

I give up for the moment. I'm hitting it as hard as I feel safe going with a punch... It's not moving at all and I don't want to break it... do you HAVE to loosen the two screws first? If so, how do you get to them. If not, any idea what I'm doing wrong? It's at 16-96 and the jerkiness has been a pain.
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thumpergirl




PostSubject: Re: Throttle On Off at idle   Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:12 pm

Does anyone have a picture of the TPS that they can post on this thread? I'm not sure visually what I'm looking for.

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Kansas Bob

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PostSubject: Re: Throttle On Off at idle   Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:02 pm

I'm going to jump in here, and over the coming week will be working on dialing my WRR in. I'll try to take some pics to post since adjusting the TPS is #1 on my list. I HATE the on off throttle issue my 2008 has, and would consider selling the bike if I can't make it better. I'm going to drop the level of the fork oil to reduce the beating it gives me on choppy roads too. 13-47 gearing with a new chain is in the works as well.
If you are watching my bike is bone stock with just under 2K on the clock. usa
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duanew




PostSubject: Re: Throttle On Off at idle   Sun Jun 17, 2012 10:52 am

slapcorn wrote:
I give up for the moment. I'm hitting it as hard as I feel safe going with a punch... It's not moving at all and I don't want to break it... do you HAVE to loosen the two screws first? If so, how do you get to them. If not, any idea what I'm doing wrong? It's at 16-96 and the jerkiness has been a pain.


slapcorn

Some people have had success with using a punch and hitting it with a hammer, but I would not suggest that method. This is what I posted in the first post:

duanew wrote:
Now is the hard part: adjusting the hard to reach thing. Yes it is right behind the frame rail any you cannot get to the fasteners. They are also security torx of size T-25. Luckily I had a set of security torx bits already. The problem still remains that they will not fit in the space provided. I had to remove the seat and side panels and get the fuel tank out of the way. I was able to loosen the throttle body clamps and wiggle it up out of the bottom hose and to the side. This gave me enough room to slide the bit in there and turn the bit with a ΒΌ inch wrench. I adjusted it to .723 volts at idle throttle (I had the engine off). I put everything back and took it for a test ride.

Yes I had to remove the clamps for the throttle body and move the throttle body to the side to get a bit in the fastener. It is a pain but the results should be worth it
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thumpergirl




PostSubject: Re: Throttle On Off at idle   Mon Jun 18, 2012 9:19 am

Kansas Bob wrote:
I'm going to jump in here, and over the coming week will be working on dialing my WRR in. I'll try to take some pics to post since adjusting the TPS is #1 on my list. I HATE the on off throttle issue my 2008 has, and would consider selling the bike if I can't make it better. I'm going to drop the level of the fork oil to reduce the beating it gives me on choppy roads too. 13-47 gearing with a new chain is in the works as well.
If you are watching my bike is bone stock with just under 2K on the clock. usa

My bike is the same, stock for now, with right around 2K on the clock. I had an 08 WRR once before, and sold it because of the choppy throttle. It was a deal breaker for me because I need fine control of the bike in certain offroad conditions. Everything else about the bike was great. I bought another one recently thinking I could get it the way I want it -I'm sure that there is some way to fix this throttle, hopefully the TPS is it.

Pics would be greatly appreciated. I'm not quite sure what I'm looking for.


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shep546




PostSubject: Re: Throttle On Off at idle   Mon Jun 18, 2012 9:55 am

Recently bought a 250r as my first bike and I thought the throttle was just me being a noob... I looked really stupid a few times jerking back and forth and getting bucked around and basically I never go on the throttle without having the clutch in now...

If somebody could post a video or guide for this mod that would be great.
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slapcorn

avatar


PostSubject: Re: Throttle On Off at idle   Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:32 am

I'll be trying to do it again (hopefully today or tomorrow) and I will post pics if I actually get it to work.
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Rapid Dog




PostSubject: Just My2Sense - but something's off here.   Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:00 am

I've read all this thread and the others, somewhere someone said they set the TPS to 19.
I also 'warnings' not to go over 100 on the other side.

I decided to give it a try. Mine was set at 16/98 so I managed to bump it up to 17 and then 19.
But at 19 the high end puts your WTO at 101, at 20 it reads 102, 21 reads 103 and so on.
To get it back to 100 the slow side has to be at 18 max.
In essence, you can't have both the ultimate low and high setting.

So if you're shooting for 19 as stated by one person, you'll be over the 100 mark at WOT.
Now, whether the 'over 100 can stick the throttle WO' deal is a myth or not, I do not know.
I'd like to know where this data comes from.

I think with mods on this (and other) forums should be clarified and documented. Photos would be nice.
"Turn it the TPS counter clockwise" .... stated looking from the right side of the bike would be more precise.
Clarification will help members from going Gung Ho with enthusiasm and damaging there bikes.

I'm just sayin', random goofy mods aren't all so great.
Hope this helps.

I'll let ya know the results of my TPS adjustment. lurk
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slapcorn

avatar


PostSubject: Re: Throttle On Off at idle   Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:11 am

I hit it pretty hard. I wish there was like a 10 second youtube vid showing you punch it.... so i can compare.
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Rapid Dog




PostSubject: Re: Throttle On Off at idle   Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:42 am

...well, I was reticent about taping it at all since the proper thing to do is simply loosen the screws, albeit not so simple.

Using the punch method is not only 'hack' it's a real goofy approach.
anyhow I through caution to the wind and got it to move.
You need to place the punch as described on the plastic screw boss and give it a tap, then a harder tap, til you see the value change on the speedo.
Just go by feel.

I'd suggest you tap on each boss alternately instead of trying to force one to move the TPS.
Keep your eye on the space between the screw and the boss (the hole) to check if it's actually moving.
I managed to whack it over what I wanted, up to 21. I went clockwise and counter to get the correct reading.

All this said, it should be 'O.K." but what you're basically doing is bunging up the factory install. Pretty dumb actually.
Hopefully it will stay tight and not move on us due to F'n up the bosses.
Good thing is the bosses appear to have metal sleeves...
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slapcorn

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PostSubject: Re: Throttle On Off at idle   Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:20 pm

What's a boss? I was told previously it should be on the body. BOOM
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Rapid Dog




PostSubject: Re: Throttle On Off at idle   Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:31 pm

...my point exactly, but I digress...

For lack of a better word, other than flange, a boss would indeed be the body of the TPC unit, but the part with the,um, 'hole'...

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Kansas Bob

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PostSubject: Re: Throttle On Off at idle   Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:55 pm

OK, I was able reach the hard to get at screw and break it loose but I had to make this tool first.

Torx 25 security tip with the end cut off by my hack saw, and a Craftsman 1/4 inch wrench.

I'll post some "how to" pics after a while, and it wasn't as easy as just jamming it in there and getting on it, but for now you can get started making your tool. Very happy







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Rapid Dog




PostSubject: Re: Throttle On Off at idle   Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:14 pm

...now that's good info! thumb
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Kansas Bob

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PostSubject: Re: Throttle On Off at idle   Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:22 pm

I'm reading back through the thread, but is there an agreed upon "best" at idle setting to help with the off idle problem?

I was able to get in diagnostic mode and move the numbers either direction so all I need to do now is choose my setting that best addresses the problem. I hope this fu**er still runs when I get done abusing it. Rolling Eyes
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