Both feet on the ground?

It totally depends on your experience level. New riders tend to feel more confident if they can easily get both feet down. That said, they also will error on the side of having the bike too low thinking that they can't get off the bike if it's going over and they can't touch the ground. After a few failed hill climbs they'll figure out that you can jettison the bike from pretty much any angle. Once you've got a bit of experience, as long as you can get the toes down on one foot that's enough.

For ease of use, you want both feet on the ground.
For max performance the odds are you will not have both feet on the ground.

You can drop the wr250r almost an inch from stock with factory adjustments, if it hasn't already been adjusted down. There are lower seats and lowering links also available.

The DR650 is a great bike, though it is quite a bit different animal then the wr250r. If you just plan on hitting up the occasional seasonal road you are probably much better off with the DR650. My friends 91 dr650 which is the older model so I am not sure how much still applies, but it is great on road, smooth, torquey, wide ratio gear box. You shift half as much, you don't have to wind out the gears just to keep up with traffic, it will easily cruise at 80mph. On the downside it is about 80lbs heavier, making it harder to pickup / harder to handle in technical offroad.
I would only look at the WR250r for its offroad performance which will be better then the DR.

Beee makes a good point that you should think about very carefully before buying....

The difference b/t these 2 bikes is not the slight difference in height (which can be easily corrected). Focus on the real differences.

OK. Here's the "skinny". I'm an old guy (68), 6'3" and 220lbs, and haven't been on a bike for over 40 years (R69S). My big goal is to pull off some "Adventure" trips with my sons on a bike like a Tenere. I'm thinking that's too much of a bike right off, so I thought I'd start a little smaller.....some two tracking at the fishing grounds and day trips on the road.
I like the idea that the WR can be carried on a hitch rack on my truck. Not sure if I could get a DR up there. I like the idea that the DR would be a smoother road bike but am thinking it would be more difficult to handle off road, especially for a geezer. I guess the real question for me is; which offers the steepest learning curve as preparation for a bigger bike? Money is about the same.

sophijo wrote:

OK. Here's the "skinny". I'm an old guy (68), 6'3" and 220lbs, and haven't been on a bike for over 40 years (R69S). My big goal is to pull off some "Adventure" trips with my sons on a bike like a Tenere. I'm thinking that's too much of a bike right off, so I thought I'd start a little smaller.....some two tracking at the fishing grounds and day trips on the road.
I like the idea that the WR can be carried on a hitch rack on my truck. Not sure if I could get a DR up there. I like the idea that the DR would be a smoother road bike but am thinking it would be more difficult to handle off road, especially for a geezer. I guess the real question for me is; which offers the steepest learning curve as preparation for a bigger bike? Money is about the same.

How big are these "Adventures" going to be. How much slab? How much off-road? Most importantly ... what kind of off-road  ie; river crossings with steep muddy banks?

I've always approached the Dual Sport compromise this way: Get the most dirt oriented bike that you can tolerate on the road.

I'd think about how long the slab sections of your "Adventure Trips" will be and get the lightest, most dirt oriented bike that will allow you to cover those slab miles comfortably 'enough'. I don't see you doing anything off-road with the Tenare other than well groomed forest roads - which you should not count on.

Too much dirt bike can make the slab uncomfortable. Too much road bike can make the dirt unpassable and maybe dangerous.

At 6'3" tall and 220 pounds I struggle to believe you can't have both feet firmly flat-footed on ground on a wr250.

Hell - I'm 5' 7" 155 pounds (50 years old) and my X is not lowered or my seat shaved or anything, and I can touch both toes on the ground.

Unless you got some "Dorf" legs you have to be flat-footing....

Tim Conway right? Truth be told..........mostly two trackers, old logging roads and gravel and short pavement trips, on the first bike. Long term goal is Glacier National Park, around Lake Superior, Ozarks..mostly pavement. Maybe I need two bikes!

My dad is 64 and also hadn't been on a bike in 40 years until he got his WRR a few months ago. He's 5'9 with a 30" inseam so we did the shock adjustments, added a lowering link, and threw on a lowered seat. He can get both balls of his feet comfortably down now. He loves the bike, although his biggest complaint is its weight. Not so much while riding, but whenever he has to pick it up I usually try to be there to help him out.

Just go out and buy a Triumph Tiger 800XC. It will do everything you are describing and it will save you the hassle of buying/selling/trading up.

I've actually got both bikes in question, a 99 DR and an 08 WRR. I'm still on the fence about keeping the DR (just recently got the WRR) but haven't brought myself to selling it yet. My take on some of the main differences:

Suspension - You're not a small guy (neither am I) which makes this a fairly big differentiator. The stock suspension on the DR is very soft, I am planning on upgrading mine if I keep it as it's just too easy to bottom out right now. Procycle sells the stuff to improve it notably, but it's a few hundred bucks. The WRR is nicer out of the box, still a tad soft but adjustable enough that I have no plans to modify it.

Seat height - As you've discovered the DR is for the short legged riders. I'm 6'2" with a 33" inseam and I can flat foot it where I'm on the balls of my feet with the WRR. Hasn't been an issue yet but should be noted for riding situations that require dog paddling the bike through.

Transmission - I'm surprised that everyone assumes the DR has better road manners. I've got 15/46 gearing on the DR which does decent on the trail but is not a ton of fun at 80mph. If it hasn't been mentioned yet, the DR is a 5 speed vs. the WR's 6, which is notable. Obviously more power on the DR, but comfort is very gearing dependent.

Fueling - I'm sure you're aware, the DR is carbed, the WRR is injected. I prefer the simplicity of the injection (simplicity in terms of starting and running) and not having to deal with jetting and tuning. Mileage isn't that far apart, 50's on the DR, 60's-70's on the WRR.

Power - The DR has more, plain and simple. Easier to haul luggage or a passenger, however the WRR is plenty up to the task. I use Giant Loops on both, pack light and you won't really feel a huge difference.

Weight - The DR is a big pig. Noticeable when you have to pick it up. I'd say you'd have no issues handling either, but the WRR is a relative lightweight.

Aside from that they're not all that different. Stock seats are meh and Seat Concepts makes a replacement kit for both. Both benefit from bigger gas tanks. I use my Wolfman Enduro tank bag and Moose Fender Bag on both, they fit well. Tire choices are fairly similar. Etc.

Anyway, hope that helped, let me know if you have any other questions I can answer.

Thanks for the thoughtful replies. I go round and around and have so far come back to the WR-R. I will check out the Tiger though. There are a couple of new/old stock WRs in my "neck of the woods" for about $5300 which seems like a good deal. I do appreciate folks who take the time, and make the effort to reply to my naive questions!

FWIW you can get DR's for bloody cheap. I got mine with 6k on the clock for $1800 a few years back and I've seen even better deals lately. You could do the farkle well and still be under a stock WRR if you find a good deal.

Hyperboarder, your the second person I have heard mention the road manners of the DR not being that good. I wonder if it has to do with the newer ones. My friends 91 DR650 has a very wide 5 speed and a very tall 1st gear (stock gearing). 1st gear is not good for offroad, but when I drove it on the road it was as smooth as the WR if not better, you shift like half as much because of the torque, and you don't have to rev the piss out of it just to keep up with traffic. The DR sounds better imo and is quieter when comparing stock mufflers. Its not that the engine is quieter at wide open throttle, but you don't have it wide open throttle all the time, so it is quieter when just driving around town. His also has a ~5ish gallon tank stock. I realize 1991 was a long time ago, maybe they engineered the goodness away?

I guess what I am saying is if I was only going to be doing seasonal roads and on road driving, there would be no question I would go for the DR650, as long as they haven't changed it to much. I was all excited about getting the fuel injected WR, but the off idle throttle response is jerky, (a common problem), and my radiator fan broke causing it to over heat last week. Yes the fan was partially my fault, (dropped the bike) ,but the bottom line is you don't have to worry about the fan breaking or 99 other things that fuel injection bring to the table on the DR as it is carburated and air cooled.

beee wrote:

I was all excited about getting the fuel injected WR, but the off idle throttle response is jerky, (a common problem),

That's a fair point. I've been riding my WR250F (carb) for the last couple of months and jumped back on the R2 just the other night. Felt VERY jerky. Never realized this until spending a couple months on a carbed machine.

beee wrote:

Hyperboarder, your the second person I have heard mention the road manners of the DR not being that good.  I wonder if it has to do with the newer ones.  My friends 91 DR650 has a very wide 5 speed and a very tall 1st gear (stock gearing).  1st gear is not good for offroad, but when I drove it on the road it was as smooth as the WR if not better, you shift like half as much because of the torque, and you don't have to rev the piss out of it just to keep up with traffic.  The DR sounds better imo and is quieter when comparing stock mufflers.  Its not that the engine is quieter at wide open throttle, but you don't have it wide open throttle all the time, so it is quieter when just driving around town.  His also has a ~5ish gallon tank stock.  I realize 1991 was a long time ago, maybe they engineered the goodness away?

I guess what I am saying is if I was only going to be doing seasonal roads and on road driving, there would be no question I would go for the DR650, as long as they haven't changed it to much.  I was all excited about getting the fuel injected WR, but the off idle throttle response is jerky, (a common problem), and my radiator fan broke causing it to over heat last week. Yes the fan was partially my fault, (dropped the bike) ,but the bottom line is you don't have to worry about the fan breaking or 99 other things that fuel injection bring to the table on the DR as it is carburated and air cooled.

91 was the big gas tank, 21L. By 96 it was down to a measly 13L, which is why I have an IMS. I would say that my DR is slightly better on the road than my WRR as is (lower gearing on the DR, stock on the WRR), just not as much as you would hope.

Personally if it's going to be mostly road, I'd say go even further, something like a 650 VStrom or a Versys, injected and wicked comfy. I've got the big Strom and I've piloted it over some fire roads without too much guff.

Completely agree with the simplicity argument though, the DR is not a complicated bike, not a ton to go wrong.

I agree that the off idle throttle response is jerky on the WR250R.  While it might not be a deal breaker - it is a trait that can be a bit annoying.  Overall - I tend to agree with Hyperboarder's observations regarding the DR650 compared to the WR.

I recently rode a DR650 for the first time.  I was on a day ride with a few friends.  I was on the WR250R, one friend brought along a KLX250S, and another  took the DR650.  I was really excited to ride the DR650 based on everything I'd heard about it.  I finally had the opportunity for about 30 minutes along some straights as well as a particularly fun and twisty paved roadway that I've ridden the WR on frequently in the past.

One thing I can say about the DR is that it had much more torque than the WR250R.  It pulled pretty hard with each healthy twist of the wrist.  But it felt slower to rev, and didn't feel as responsive as the WR250R.  It felt more like a diesel engine car - that revved low - but had prodigious torque on tap.  Like a big, heavy freight train.  Whereas the WR felt more like a dirtbike by comparison.  A high revving Civic Si.  Some love the freight train-like feel of torque.  Just visit ADVR and see how many people there swear by their KLR650s.  And undoubtedly the DR650 will be able run above 80mph at lower revs than the WR.  However, I rarely have had the need or desire to ride that fast unless I'm on an expressway.  Riding 4-lane highways on any bike – in my opinion – deprives you of what is so much fun about riding a motorcycle. Life is short. Why waste it riding 4-lane highways?  I avoid them.  

Also - through the twisty corners of the route we rode - the DR didn't handle as spritely as the WR either - and I had to muscle it more in the corners.  I'm sure the DR will feel more stable on the highway though.  It felt MUCH heavier than the WR as well - and the weight was very noticeable.  However, it was nice to be able to touch flat footed on the DR (I have a 30" inseam and have all the lowering mods done to my WR and still can't touch flat footed on it).  In the end - what clinched it for me was the vibration.  The DR vibrated so much compared to my WR, that I found it virtually un-rideable over any reasonable distance.  As excited as I was to ride it - I was equally excited to get off it 30 minutes later.  This may come as a surprise to some on here.  The bike even sported Michelin Anakees that feature a relatively smooth (non-knobby) tread pattern - so it wasn't due to aggressive tread blocks.  The owner of the DR also has a KLR650 and stated that the DR was noticeable SMOOTHER than his KLR. Go figure. When the DR owner tried out my WR, he couldn't believe how smooth it felt.  He also added that "it doesn't seem like a 250cc" based on how much power it has. He is now looking for used WR250Rs on the local market.

Granted - am I willing to concede that my experience on this DR650 may not be generalizable to all DR650s.  The one I rode may have just been more prone to vibration.  Yet - even if it felt as smooth as the WR - it would be hard for me to reconcile the extra weight of the bike and the likely poorer fuel economy I'd achieve riding it.  Like I said - I really was excited to ride the DR650.  And I really wanted to like it.  Still - this was one of those times where when I got back on my WR - I knew that it was the right bike for me.  For the kind of riding I like to do - the WR250R is just a much better fit.

With these factors in mind - I would strongly suggest riding both of them if you have the opportunity - so you can decide for yourself what traits you prefer in each bike and what you would be more willing to live with.

BTW - Sophijo - I noticed that you are interested in riding around Lake Superior.  I've ridden my WR250R along the north shore of Lake Superior a few times.   I wrote about the experience here:

https://wr250rforum.forumotion.com/t7292-1600-km-lake-superior-camping-adventure-on-a-wr250r

Mike

Mike..Prior to reading about your Lake Superior ride I was pretty happy to drive my Tundra pickup to the campsite or trailhead and do the geezer shuffle (bad knees and all) to the fishing hole or whatever. While reading about your trip, Jesus spoke to me and said that if I had a WR250R I could get a lot closer to a lot more places, and could even partake in smaller versions of your trek around Superior! Unfortunately I kept reading; in the Adventure forums too, and realized that on a Tenere I would have even larger opportunities. So now I'm really screwed knowing that eventually I'll need two bikes. I'll start with a WR250R. Good news is that my knees are fixed. This is pretty much your fault and I'd like to know what you're going to do to redeem yourself!

sophijo wrote:

Mike..Prior to reading about your Lake Superior ride I was pretty happy to drive my Tundra pickup to the campsite or trailhead and do the geezer shuffle (bad knees and all) to the fishing hole or whatever. While reading about your trip, Jesus spoke to me and said that if I had a WR250R I could get a lot closer to a lot more places, and could even partake in smaller versions of your trek around Superior! Unfortunately I kept reading; in the Adventure forums too, and realized that on a Tenere I would have even larger opportunities. So now I'm really screwed knowing that eventually I'll need two bikes. I'll start with a WR250R. Good news is that my knees are fixed. This is pretty much your fault and I'd like to know what you're going to do to redeem yourself!

LOL - the only thing I can think of doing to redeem myself - might actually make things worse.  You can search "Nanabijou" in the Adventure Rider (ADVR) trip report (and daytrip) forums and read my other trip reports for more north of superior photos and adventure! Unfortunately, they involve a CBR125R and a CBR150R.  You may then decide that you really need 3 bikes.  

Mike

Did a 130 mile loop on the DR today, ran the same loop on my WRR a few weeks back. Some observations:

-The ride required about 20 miles of high speed highway, up to a 75mph speed limit. Neither bike is fun at those speeds but I honestly preferred the WRR a bit. Less buzzy and more planted. The DR's front end gets light at speed (I blame the billboard of a front fender) and it really needs a 6th gear.

-I second Nanabijou's torque comment, the DR has tons. I had a hard time keeping the rear from spinning on some of the looser dirt. Not necessarily a bad thing. A twist of the wrist on the DR certainly gives a slightly bigger smile, it pulls hard.

-I don't have good recent mpg numbers on the DR, but looking at the natural IMS tank I've got on it, it's for sure a good deal more thirsty than the WRR.

Looks like you're set on the WRR, which is a good call IMO. If you want more power, pick up a DR as well and you'll be a happy camper :).

I've been talking with my wife...she's a wonder, and she's thinking she'd like to do this too! That's a good thing. She's kinda short as in 30" inseam so will need a different bike....here we go! I know Yamaha makes a couple "shorter" dual sports but don't know much about them. I will before this is done, and will no doubt become an even bigger pest on thid forum than I already am!

I have a 30" inseam and can flat foot the WRR with the suspension lowered, a Yamalink, and the low Seat Concepts seat.

sophijo wrote:

I've been talking with my wife...she's a wonder, and she's thinking she'd like to do this too!

If she is new to bikes consider the Yami XT250 (225 used) or the Yami TW200 or Honda CRL230.

Wallrat wrote:

I have a 30" inseam and can flat foot the WRR with the suspension lowered, a Yamalink, and the low Seat Concepts seat.

The lowered Seat Concepts complete seat is going to be my next purchase.

Mike

It's good for about 3/4" shorter and its considerably more comfy than the stock seat. All told I figure I removed 1" from the stock suspension adjustment, 1" from the Yamalink, and 3/4" from the seat. Its way too low for me but since it's my dad's bike and he has a 28" inseam he's pretty happy with it.