News from your part of the world

Today the winter came to my town.

Amazingrace visits my home town. Kiruna after 7 minutes in the movie

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UibIvOyKRso

Extremly cold here. minus 36,6 c -32 F. This winter is like when i was a kid. Extrem But i like it.

Unbelievable accident with a couple of skiing kids and a hibernating bear. 8 boys where skiing of pist and the first skier skies over the bears winter quarter and wakes up the bear. Second skier skis over the bears head when it’s crawling out from its winter quarters. Third skier skis right in to the bear and the bear grabs the boy and drags him down to his winter quarter.

A vicious attack on the boy by the bear. Bear bites and scratch the boy who lose he’s helmet he gets rescued by he's friends who shouts and waves there ski poles at the bear. Bear runs a way and the kid survived.

http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article12787209.ab

Vicious attack on the boy by the bear? Sounds more like a vicious attack on the bear by the boys.

Ya get skiied over while you're asleep. Then the next guy runs the sharp metal edges of his skis right over your head. Then the third guy finally punches his skis right into you. Oww!

So the bear grabs the attacker and drags him into the den. And obviously, doesn't do much about it, because all he got was a few bites and scratches. According to the English version of the story, the kid crawled out of the den all by himself. Doubt his friends outside waving their poles had much impact on the bear, even if he could see them.

You see what a bear can actually do when it decides it's pissed or hungry, you realize this wasn't much of a bear attack.

Bear was probably still in that stumbly, stupid, "what's going on" consciousness they have when they first wake from hibernation. It's kind of funny to see them then, actually.

With the weather lately, our blackies should be sticking their heads out to take a look around just about any week now. The grumbly bears will be another month.

Big news the past week is the terrorist attack made by a gun loving rightwing Christian in Norway.
http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/terrordadetinorge/offren/

rokka wrote:

Big news the past week is the terrorist attack made by a gun loving rightwing Christian in Norway.
http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/terrordadetinorge/offren/

Why is the left so quick to pick a 'rightwing christian' connection for these kind of things? I think it is sick when a terrible tragedy like this is used to score political talking points.. you did this with the Loughner shooting as well. Here we have a situation where many people are killed by a lone wolf wacko, & the left wants to immediately attribute it to 'right wing christians'. They use personal tragedies to promote their agenda.. twisting the facts to suit their agenda.

He also liked to play violent video games.. why no attack on that?

He liked to watch True Blood, & Dexter, too. Why not jump on that?

Last week, a copycat plot was uncovered in Ft. Hood, Tx. Naser Abdo was reported by a gun store clerk.. probably another gun loving rightwing Christian. But the left wing media didn't even report he was a muslim, at first. Why do they downplay any muslim terrorist attacks or attempts, which are clearly supported by, financed, promoted, & recruited for terrorism, but a lone wolf wacko with no links to any 'gun loving rightwing Christian' groups are quickly labeled that & repeated over & over before any facts are even in? Just like with Loughner, the political points are made in a tragedy with no regard to truth. Laughner was an atheist, who read mein kampf & Karl Marx, hated bush & the military. This norwegian nut doesn't believe in Jesus, we find out later. But will that restrain those who already 'know' he is a 'gun loving rightwing Christian?' No. Their 'truth' is out. Don't confuse everyone with the facts.

Now, if you were wanting to talk about the tragedy, or rip the guy & his views, fine. But it is obvious from your single sentence, that your main purpose was to smear 'gun loving rightwing Christians', not the perpetrator of the tragedy.

You may be sick of 'gun loving rightwing Christians', but i'm sick of left wing smears using horrible tragedies like this to score political talking points. I'm also sick of the lies & distortion from the left, twisting current events to promote their agenda.

There is truth. There are factual realities. Other political systems have also relied on lies, propaganda, & distortions to get in power & control people. No doubt it will continue in the future. But the truth will be evident, & thinking people will see through the lies & propaganda.

rokka wrote:

Big news the past week is the terrorist attack made by a gun loving rightwing Christian in Norway.
http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/terrordadetinorge/offren/

Created by being raised in a socialist utopia, no doubt.

Wait a minute: I'm a conservative and get lumped in with the "right wing" label. I'm Christian, and yes, I enjoy firearms and competitive shooting the way some people enjoy burning gasoline in snowmobiles. I guess I'm supposed to accept being lumped in with this piece of trash (not the socialist trash, the murderous trash).

But first, let's just check that out for a moment. Let's see how many socialist lies we can spot, sorta like the malicious "Palin and the right wing made Laughner shoot Giffords" crowd were chanting. And still do in fact. Yes, come to think of it, Rokka wrote this particular piece of trash not too long ago: but fare enough to make the conclusion that she is in the same division as Iran’s president or Hugo Chaves.. When you claim Palin is the same as a Marxist and a mass murderer like Ahmadinejad, you're either stupid or malicious. We're just not sure which one yet.

Let's hear from Breivik himself on his religious beliefs: "Myself and many more like me do not necessarily have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and God... I'm not going to pretend I'm a very religious person, as that would be a lie"

So Breivik, in his own words, says he's not a very religious person and to say so would be a lie. But you want to use that very lie to your own ends, to build him up as some kind of hard core Christian.

He wrote he was a huge admirer of Zionism. That's a Christian belief?

He was into Odinism for a while - maybe it was that Nordic crap that pushed him over the edge, but it's safe to say Odinism isn't particularly compatible with Christian beliefs, never mind mass murder.

He condemned Christian missionary activity in India because he believed it would negatively influence Hindus - condemning Christian missionary activity... how Christian can you get!

They can't even find a Christian church of any stripe that he was attending. A serious Christian, not going to church??? But he's a Christian, case closed!

And when did being right wing/conservative ever include a belief in white superiority and genocide - other than in the twisted dirty little minds of malicious socialists, that is? His vision of the world order that would follow his murders was more about totalitarianism and Group Think than the concept that each individual be free to pursue happiness as they see it, with minimal government interference. He wants a new government that controls everything to ensure thought and action are all appropriately pure. And that is a pretty good description of socialism, not conservativism nor Christianity.

And a final thought: if his timing with his bombs had been better and he'd killed more people with his homemade explosives than those he shot, would he then be a "fertilizer lover" instead of a "gun lover".

The barking mad leftists like to talk about "hate mongers", but when it comes down to hating others not like them, they're world class. Whether it is Obama urging Latinos to go after their "enemies" - other Americans - or some whackadoodle socialist nutjob here claiming Palin inspired Laughner and is in the same league as a socialist (!!!!!) like Hugo Chavez.

Quote :

Why is the left so quick to pick a 'rightwing christian' connection for these kind of things? I think it is sick when a terrible tragedy like this is used to score political talking points.. you did this with the Loughner shooting as well. Here we have a situation where many people are killed by a lone wolf wacko, & the left wants to immediately attribute it to 'right wing christians'. They use personal tragedies to promote their agenda.. twisting the facts to suit their agenda.

Because he was a left wing Christian who loved guns. If he had been a Bean loving Communist Islamist that would have been much easier to swallow wouldn’t it ? If that act would have been carried out by a socialist or an Islamist the head lines in our papers would have been that.

Quote :

He also liked to play violent video games.. why no attack on that?

He liked to watch True Blood, & Dexter, too. Why not jump on that? .

I bet he did and I’m sure that many suicide bombers I Israel does as well, right/left wing news papers does not write about those things.

Quote :

Last week, a copycat plot was uncovered in Ft. Hood, Tx. Naser Abdo was reported by a gun store clerk.. probably another gun loving rightwing Christian. But the left wing media didn't even report he was a muslim, at first. Why do they downplay any muslim terrorist attacks or attempts, which are clearly supported by, financed, promoted, & recruited for terrorism, but a lone wolf wacko with no links to any 'gun loving rightwing Christian' groups are quickly labeled that & repeated over & over before any facts are even in? Just like with Loughner, the political points are made in a tragedy with no regard to truth. Laughner was an atheist, who read mein kampf & Karl Marx, hated bush & the military. This norwegian nut doesn't believe in Jesus, we find out later. But will that restrain those who already 'know' he is a 'gun loving rightwing Christian?' No. Their 'truth' is out. Don't confuse everyone with the facts.

I don’t know about your newspapers but our have pretty much only been writing about muslim terrorist or the threat from those groups. Obvious is that there are other threats that newspapers never write about.

Quote :

Now, if you wanted to talk about the tragedy, or rip the guy & his views, fine. But it is obvious from your single sentence, that your main purpose was to smear 'gun loving rightwing Christians', not the perpetrator of the tragedy.

I would not puke on a gun loving right winger who don’t kill innocent people like Jäger for instance. But people’s ideas and interest are always being smeared a it only hearts when own interest are being smeard. I realize that what I wrote would heart somebody and I don’t like that like every thing else that’s being smeard every day.

Quote :

You may be sick of 'gun loving rightwing Christians', but i'm sick of left wing smears using horrible tragedies like this to score political talking points. I'm also sick of the lies & distortion from the left, twisting current events to promote their agenda.

I know how you feel because our papers never wrote about the threat from a right winger. But remember you will always know the tree by the fruit it bears and what label we give it does not really matter I think.

Quote :

Created by being raised in a socialist utopia, no doubt.

For mass murderers there are always an excuse. I Nurnberg trials there where a lot of god reasons to kill Judes.

If Norway is a socialist utopia I would very much like to have a socialist utopia in my country.
Norge is with out any doubt one of the most prosperous nations in the world. Check out there economy.
I would very much like to leave the European community and enter Norway. I bet many Americans would if they knew a little about the country

Quote :

Wait a minute: I'm a conservative and get lumped in with the "right wing" label. I'm Christian, and yes, I enjoy firearms and competitive shooting the way some people enjoy burning gasoline in snowmobiles. I guess I'm supposed to accept being lumped in with this piece of trash (not the socialist trash, the murderous trash).

I am sure that Jäger is a very decent member of the community that he belongs to. I think there are decent socialists decent Muslims decent Liberals and so one. Papers media around the world does write things that ofence people everyday.

Quote :

But first, let's just check that out for a moment. Let's see how many socialist lies we can spot, sorta like the malicious "Palin and the right wing made Laughner shoot Giffords" crowd were chanting. And still do in fact. Yes, come to think of it, Rokka wrote this particular piece of trash not too long ago: but fare enough to make the conclusion that she is in the same division as Iran’s president or Hugo Chaves.. When you claim Palin is the same as a Marxist and a mass murderer like Ahmadinejad, you're either stupid or malicious. We're just not sure which one yet.

I am a member of a liberal party therefore you really don’t need to label me as socialist. I think its wrong to target people and we went thrue that earlier.

Quote :

Let's hear from Breivik himself on his religious beliefs: "Myself and many more like me do not necessarily have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and God... I'm not going to pretend I'm a very religious person, as that would be a lie"

There are Christians that don’t recognize Jesus in the same way as the gospel tells us in the bible.But Breivik isnot a muslim that’s for sure.

Quote :

So Breivik, in his own words, says he's not a very religious person and to say so would be a lie. But you want to use that very lie to your own ends, to build him up as some kind of hard core Christian.

If he was a true Christian or a masonry he would have known the comitments and that masonry’s consider it a sin to kill another Christian. I bet there are piles of Muslims that are no muslim what so ever. Because the Koran says that never kill infants disabled women etc. Brevik is not a Christian yest like the people that carry out suicide bombs in Israel are not true muslims.

Quote :

He wrote he was a huge admirer of Zionism. That's a Christian belief?

I think he pics things that fits hes twisted mind. He is the same kind of man as the people that call them self muslims and carry out outrages acts in the name om Allah.

Quote :

He was into Odinism for a while - maybe it was that Nordic crap that pushed him over the edge, but it's safe to say Odinism isn't particularly compatible with Christian beliefs, never mind mass murderMost of all he was extreme right winger he belong to right wing party in Norway and was att right wing forums. With right wing does not mean US republican, more close to national socialist. This is the error by using the scale left right wing. A Left winger in USA is probably more to the right in USA that I am. I am in the center a republican is to the left or north or south of Breivik.


He condemned Christian missionary activity in India because he believed it would negatively influence Hindus - condemning Christian missionary activity... how Christian can you get!

They can't even find a Christian church of any stripe that he was attending. A serious Christian, not going to church??? But he's a Christian, case closed!

If you ask mulims he is a Christian and even I is a Christian even if im really not. But I am more a Christian than a muslim. But most of all I am secular liberal.

And a final thought: if his timing with his bombs had been better and he'd killed more people with his homemade explosives than those he shot, would he then be a "fertilizer lover" instead of a "gun lover".

Something happened that ruind hes schedual. He wanted the bombs to go of earlier and get to the islan earlier.

Quote :

The barking mad leftists like to talk about "hate mongers", but when it comes down to hating others not like them, they're world class. Whether it is Obama urging Latinos to go after their "enemies" - other Americans - or some whackadoodle socialist nutjob here claiming Palin inspired Laughner and is in the same league as a socialist (!!!!!) like Hugo Chavez.

No I am nothing like Chaves I promise

rokka wrote:

For mass murderers there are always an excuse.

The same could be said for those who would say Palin is the same as an Ahmadinejad or Chavez - they always have an excuse.

Quote :

I am a member of a liberal party therefore you really don’t need to label me as socialist.

I don't care if you claim Ernst Zundel as a personal friend - your philosophy is socialist. Take pride in what you are, rather than denying it. You don't see me making excuses that I'm not really conservative or a capitalist - of course I am.

Quote :

I think its wrong to target people and we went thrue that earlier.

Apparently we didn't go through it enough when we see you comparing Palin to Ahmadinejad and Chavez, or posting some moronic link to a YouTube Palin bloopers to explain why you think she's incompetent. What are we supposed to believe from you? Crap like comparing Palin to Ahmadinejad and Chavez isn't targeting her, it's fair comment when you do that? Don't think so buddy, and you'll get called on that bullshit every time.

Quote :

If he was a true Christian or a masonry he would have known the comitments and that masonry’s consider it a sin to kill another Christian.... Brevik is not a Christian yest like the people that carry out suicide bombs in Israel are not true muslims.

Yeah. And yet here you are, posting away that it was a right wing Christian who committed these murders. Which begs the question: seeing as you obviously recognize he wasn't a Christian, why did you describe him as such with your initial post? Trying to get a free shot in at Christians?

Quote :

No I am nothing like Chaves I promise

Well, given as Chavez has socialist principles and beliefs that you at least partly support, you're one hell of a lot closer to being like Chavez than Palin is, despite your posting that he is just like him. It's obvious you despise Palin, but to claim she's a socialist like Chavez is beyond ridiculous.

http://m.nyhetskanalen.se/1.2216204/en-bild-av-en-massmordare

Ok the thread was news from your part of the world. Here is the link i refer to when it came to my choise of head line. Please komment on your thougts about him and not so much about Rokka.

Who has the interpretation rights for who is a Christian? I don’t but in my opinion he is not one of the Christians I know.
However Everybody who recognize the Lutheran confession can be considered as a Christian.

It is far from impossible that Breivik does confess that. In ABB manifest it is clear that the bible and
Christianity is a great source of inspiration where parallels to the crusaders are made.

When it comes to criticism of media the lack of investigations on Christian terrorism or possibilities of that
should be the critics. I don’t think it’s wrong to report on his view on Christianity or guns or his right wing ideas.
It would have been irresponsible not to publish that he has written of the bible and the Christian culture in many
places in his manifest. ABB is as Christian as the 9/11 terrorist are Muslim. There for Breivik is a Christian terrorist.

Some will claim that we have now evidence that Christian values are not a safe haven for our society, maybe it is that way.
He is called a right winger and ABB describes himself as a conservative Christian anti humanist anti socialist.
He was a former member in fremskritts partiet. It is a party that is considered to be a radical right wing party.
That gives Christian& right winger.He was interested in guns I think that is obvious. Therefore the news head line is not outrages.

Right wing Christian gun lover and a terrorist is probably accurate words to describe Breivik. That may not taste good in
your mouths but unfortunately this is the reality. In what degree this terrorist act will contaminate or affect extreme parties
In Scandinavia is yet to be seen but I think it will. If this act was carried out by a Muslim the Scandinavian society would scream
at the Muslim community to distance them from this terror act. The Christian society will not meet the same demand.

The News channel that published the exact words that I quoted in the description of Breivik is a commercial TV channel.
Big Owner of the channel is family of Bonnier that are of Danish/German Jewish origin and I doubt very much that they are socialist.

Perhaps there are a lot of regional or national differences.. especially with the media.

If Anders Behring Breivik had been a muslim, it would be weeks before our mainstream media even reported that, then they would downplay it. They wouldn't even call him a terrorist, like they were reluctant to do with the ft. hood shooter.

There is no doubt that Breivik was a nationalistic racist.. he was thrown out of the Norwegian Defense league (a right wing group) for being 'too extreme'.

Unlike the US, Norway is officially a Christian country. It is their state religion, & everyone is taught the official state tenets of that religion in school. It is hard to defend labels, whether we put them on ourselves or others do it for us. I do get weary of the constant labeling by the left, & their using it for their agenda & propaganda purposes. But I will accept the label of right wing, as also was our own Timothy McVeigh, which this Breivik seems to resemble the most. It is very eerie when we realize there are lone wolf people out there who are very intelligent, resourceful, & ruthless. They come up with a horrific plan & execute it methodically & coldly. They do not seem to have any conscience, & justify murder somehow in their minds.

But my point remains. The left is too quick to jump on any tragedy & label it as caused by their philosophical enemies. They use things like this to bash & smear their opponents, not to promote understanding or even simply report the event.

In an ironic flurry of smear, the US left is calling the tea party congressional representatives 'Terrorists', while the debt ceiling negotiations are going on. They won't even call real muslim terrorists, 'terrorists'. Of course, they will call Breivik a terrorist, & save the good smear words for their opponents, rather than use them as descriptive terms. 'Nazi racists' is starting to be overdone.. people are getting tired of hearing that from the left all the time, so they need a new buzzword. 'Terrorist' seems to be the latest one for smearing the right.

I'll cut you some slack for language differences, & perhaps the unintended smear.. maybe you were just reporting the incident.. but your long description of him underscores what seems to be your intent.. to smear 'gun loving right wing christians' by lumping them all in with Breivik. Why 'gun loving'? Yes, Breivik owned guns. He bought them legally in a country where gun ownership is tightly controlled. But he used them to commit an atrocity. They were a tool for his purposes. Labeling him as 'gun loving' is a smear on gun enthusiasts & is a common tactic used by the left. “So it’s not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.” ..as Obama would say. But why not say 'bomb loving'? ..or 'fertilizer loving'?

So how do you explain the motivations for Breivik? Was he just a wacko? Was he a part of a right wing conspiracy? Is he a hero to 'gun loving right wing christians?' Are the people of Norway going door to door & rounding up the right wingers? Are the 'gun loving right wing christians' inspired & motivated by this action, & are going to the streets shooting Muslims & liberals?

I've not read that much about him.. info is still coming. It seems to me, though, that he is a sociopath.. much like McVeigh.. not as crazy as Loughner, but not as brainwashed as the 911 terrorists, who obviously were well funded, organized & part of a terrorist conspiracy. It is unsettling to think there are people like this.. who will kill innocent people to make a political point, but they are with us. It seems to be a part of our world, now. The question is how to stop it, or prevent it. At least that is how we should be looking at it. But for the left, the question is, 'How can we use this tragedy to smear the right?'

Quote :

Perhaps there are a lot of regional or national differences.. especially with the media.

Ill guess that there is a difference but the north American papers I read are Canadian. Most because I like to read about ice hockey and Canadians cover that much better that US papers.
Papers in Scandinavia are most of the time left or right wing papers. That does not mean that every article is view from a political aspect. Most papers have the second side as the political page. On that page they give their political agenda in culture business and so on. Of course you never can protect yourself from what somebody reports. Individual journalists or historian describe what they experience and probably put that in a context. When a view gets political it’s up to you to judge.

Quote :

If Anders Behring Breivik had been a Muslim, it would be weeks before our mainstream media even reported that, then they would downplay it. They wouldn't even call him a terrorist, like they were reluctant to do with the ft. hood shooter.

It sounds terrible to me if American papers would not handle that better. Because we really think of American media as flexible and fast to report about different issues. I have no source yeast a gut feeling about that.

Quote :

There is no doubt that Breivik was a nationalistic racist.. he was thrown out of the Norwegian Defense league (a right wing group) for being 'too extreme'.

All the racist organizations are busy with distancing from Breivik. But many of their members salute him as a hero.

Quote :

Unlike the US, Norway is officially a Christian country. It is their state religion, & everyone is taught the official state tenets of that religion in school. It is hard to defend labels, whether we put them on ourselves or others do it for us. I do get weary of the constant labeling by the left, & their using it for their agenda & propaganda purposes. But I will accept the label of right wing, as also was our own Timothy McVeigh, which this Breivik seems to resemble the most. It is very eerie when we realize there are lone wolf people out there who are very intelligent, resourceful, & ruthless. They come up with a horrific plan & execute it methodically & coldly. They do not seem to have any conscience, & justify murder somehow in their minds.

Ok I know a lot of Norway since I have a quarter of Norwegian Blood in me. I’m not familiar with the relation between the Lutheran Church and the state of Norway. But I do know that Norway is a secular country. That means that the church of Norway’s importance in every Norwegians life in very limited. I say without any source that 90 % of all the Norwegians have contact with the Church on Funerals weddings baptizing and Confirmation. The last sacrament that I mentioned is losing more and more participants. When it comes to the claim that Norwegians are thought about the church in compulsory schools I had the same situation when I was I school I Sweden. It is not dramatic in any way. They do describe Lutheranism/protenstaism where dry way and most of the teachers are atheists that don’t exactly are thrilled of the subject. My country Sweden waged wars for hundreds of years for Protestantism but it is almost forgotten now and in the education system church was no issue other than in the plan that we most have.
The labels that many of you are using to understand things does more harm than understanding.
It works both ways, for instance every political journalist in Scandinavia always guess wrong about US opinions before elections. That has the same mechanism as Americans that tries to understand Scandinavian politics with the scale left right. The most right wing party in Norway and Sweden are on the border to national socialism. Traditional conservatives are one step to the left. Republicans and democrats are whery wide houses of ideas while Scandinavian has different parties.

Quote :

But my point remains. The left is too quick to jump on any tragedy & label it as caused by their philosophical enemies. They use things like this to bash & smear their opponents, not to promote understanding or even simply report the event.

I think that both left and right are doing that, mostly in our papers second side that I mentioned earlier. In Sweden we had the policy of mutual understanding for decades but that is changing in a bad direction. With bad means polarization and a lack of respect of one and other views

Quote :

In an ironic flurry of smear, the US left is calling the tea party congressional representatives 'Terrorists', while the debt ceiling negotiations are going on. They won't even call real Muslim terrorists, 'terrorists'. Of course, they will call Breivik a terrorist, & save the good smear words for their opponents, rather than use them as descriptive terms. 'Nazi racists' is starting to be overdone.. people are getting tired of hearing that from the left all the time, so they need a new buzzword. 'Terrorist' seems to be the latest one for smearing the right.

First of all when you are addressing left and right to a European you most know that Democrats are a right wing party in most European countries. As I said to you earlier I know the tree for the fruits it bears. I have pathos of right and wrong and I think that most people do.
For instance we have in Finnish history( as a 2 quarters of Finn blood in my vaince) taboos of our history concerning civil war and to be allied with Nazi Germany that 70-90 years after the happenings are not ok to debate in public. I claim that we were allies to Nazi Germany( and was condemned as such in the peace treaty in Paris 1949), I claim that we did ethnic clancing in the occupied territories in Soviet. I claim that the death rate in our concentration camps for civilian Russians/military Russians was too high for a civilized country. I claim that we killed too many of our opponents in the civil war due to their political opinion. It is simply wrong doings and they don’t need to be label as nothing else than wrong doings. Most Finns will not agree and want to point at this and that. Wrong doings nothing else.

Quote :

I'll cut you some slack for language differences, & perhaps the unintended smear.. maybe you were just reporting the incident.. but your long description of him underscores what seems to be your intent.. to smear 'gun loving right wing Christians’ by lumping them all in with Breivik. Why 'gun loving'? Yes, Breivik owned guns. He bought them legally in a country where gun ownership is tightly controlled. But he used them to commit an atrocity. They were a tool for his purposes. Labeling him as 'gun loving' is a smear on gun enthusiasts & is a common tactic used by the left. “So it’s not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.” ..as Obama would say. But why not say 'bomb loving'? ..or 'fertilizer loving'?

I have been very clear with you one that one. I said these exact words: I am sure that Jäger is a very decent member of his community. How much clearer do you want me to be ? Do you think that we don’t have weapons in my family when we live in the wilderness ? And does your empati reach further than to a gun loving right winger. MY question to you would be do you see anything else in our debates that is smearing?
What he does need is some ethic training considering his language to his opponents. But that is my opinion and I might be wrong. When you get suspicious I advise you to ask yourself if it is simply because what I know of myself I think of others.

I would like to ad that we are very very sad of the loss of life and young lifes even if the lost lifes are of my political oponents that I fight in my political life.

rokka wrote:

...but the north American papers I read are Canadian. Most because I like to read about ice hockey and Canadians cover that much better that US papers.

Yup, it's simply 'hockey' in *all* of Canada.

The 'ice' is dropped in a few US cities too, notably Chicago, Detroit & Philly. Not sure if New York is included too?

Back to lurking now.... (was I off off topic? )

rokka wrote:

I have been very clear with you one that one. I said these exact words: I am sure that Jäger is a very decent member of his community. How much clearer do you want me to be ? Do you think that we don’t have weapons in my family when we live in the wilderness ? And does your empati reach further than to a gun loving right winger. MY question to you would be do you see anything else in our debates that is smearing?
What he does need is some ethic training considering his language to his opponents. But that is my opinion and I might be wrong. When you get suspicious I advise you to ask yourself if it is simply because what I know of myself I think of others.

I would like to ad that we are very very sad of the loss of life and young lifes even if the lost lifes are of my political oponents that I fight in my political life.

Well said.

twday wrote:

rokka wrote:

I have been very clear with you one that one. I said these exact words: I am sure that Jäger is a very decent member of his community. How much clearer do you want me to be ? Do you think that we don’t have weapons in my family when we live in the wilderness ? And does your empati reach further than to a gun loving right winger. MY question to you would be do you see anything else in our debates that is smearing?
What he does need is some ethic training considering his language to his opponents. But that is my opinion and I might be wrong. When you get suspicious I advise you to ask yourself if it is simply because what I know of myself I think of others.

I would like to ad that we are very very sad of the loss of life and young lifes even if the lost lifes are of my political oponents that I fight in my political life.

Well said.

...definitely well said.

...And , localy, we are having a gas shortage. Check CBC, Nova Scotia.
Lighnting storm, a couple weeks ago, is to blame.
we had some hard rain...but good overall.
Anywho, back to you...

rokka wrote:

http://m.nyhetskanalen.se/1.2216204/en-bild-av-en-massmordare

Ok the thread was news from your part of the world. Here is the link i refer to when it came to my choise of head line. Please komment on your thougts about him and not so much about Rokka.

As long as Rokka keeps posting bullshit about a guy who says he isn't particularly religious and has no particular relationship with either God or Jesus being a "Christian", Rokka is going to keep being commented on.

When Rokka posts a clip of Palin bloopers as some sort of proof she is unfit for office, while a similar blooper reel about a president who talks about visiting 57 states - with a few left to go - and who can't even remember his daughter's age, is somehow "different", then again, Rokka is going to be called on his double standard and hypocrisy. When Rokka talks about Palin's campaign ads causing violence - when we know Laughner was apolitical and the Democrats have long been doing worse, superimposing crosshairs on a Republican's head - then yes, Rokka and everyone else is again going to be reminded of his hypocrisy and double standards.

You constantly post leftist spin here, such as your latest "50 million without health insurance" - which was also about an 8% exaggeration on your part. Maybe you just blindly swallow that leftist, statist crap without thinking, I don't know. But when you post that kind of stuff, no matter what you say to excuse it, I'm reminded of an old saying: When you hear the sound of hoofbeats approaching, don't expect to see a herd of zebras. Or this one: when it walks like a duck and squawks like a duck, it's a duck.

Quote :

I am sure that Jäger is a very decent member of his community. What he does need is some ethic training considering his language to his opponents.

Until you can get around your blatant hypocrisy, prejudices, and double standards, it is going to be a very, very long time before you can even attempt to lecture anyone on ethics, my socialist friend. You need to straighten yourself out first.

And that would include the clowns who are supporters of you who are still posting as late as a few weeks ago that it was the right wing who inspired Laughner to shoot Giffords and others - when the entire world knows he was apolitical, didn't listen to talk radio, and if he paid attention anything it was to socialist/statist crap like The Communist Manifesto and the Zeitgeist movement.

I'm a capitalist and a conservative. I don't apologize for it and I don't try to run around selling the image I am different. It is unfortunate that being identified as a socialist troubles you so much, and it is even possible that you aren't as far to the left as socialists go back in Sweden and believe that excuses you from belonging with the socialists. But you are a socialist in thoughts and belief; perhaps it is time you made peace with what you are instead of deluding yourself you are some sort of free enterprise, small government, limited powers, individual rights and freedoms kind of guy.

And unlike you, using tragedies like this or the Laughner shootings to attack groups whose politics you don't agree with, you can go back as far as you want in posts here and you'll never see me using an atrocity committed by one person to stereotype a group.

rokka wrote:

Ill guess that there is a difference but the north American papers I read are Canadian. Most because I like to read about ice hockey and Canadians cover that much better that US papers.
Papers in Scandinavia are most of the time left or right wing papers. That does not mean that every article is view from a political aspect. Most papers have the second side as the political page. On that page they give their political agenda in culture business and so on. Of course you never can protect yourself from what somebody reports. Individual journalists or historian describe what they experience and probably put that in a context. When a view gets political it’s up to you to judge.

I agree that we must be skeptical when listening to others.. be aware of agendas, look for actual truth. Back in the '60s there was a lot of talk about the 'credibility gap', when dealing with the media & politicians. Years of polishing & practice has made dispensing propaganda an art.

rokka wrote:

Quote :

If Anders Behring Breivik had been a Muslim, it would be weeks before our mainstream media even reported that, then they would downplay it. They wouldn't even call him a terrorist, like they were reluctant to do with the ft. hood shooter.

It sounds terrible to me if American papers would not handle that better. Because we really think of American media as flexible and fast to report about different issues. I have no source yeast a gut feeling about that.

American papers are legion, though they are fading as a major source of news & information. There are more widespread views available on them, with a broader range of political views. Some of the biggest, like the New York Times, are obviously biased toward the left. But papers are becoming less relevant. I don't know if it is because people don't learn to read in our educational system, or if we're cheap & don't want to spend $1 for a paper, or if we spend all our time in front of the tv, or if information is readily available on the internet. Breaking news is more easily seen on cable news channels or the internet.

My criticism of the media was toward our broadcast news media.. the mainstream news sources in the US.. Abc, Nbc, Cbs, Pbs, & Cnn. Fox has come on the scene in the last few years & has offered another view.. sometimes conservative, sometimes moderate.. depending on where you are (some in the far left consider CNN to be 'right wing!'). But our unbiased, national, visual media is anything but unbiased. They clearly have an agenda, & were instrumental in getting Obama elected. They were unabashed cheerleaders for him & have continued to be so. Only the extreme left in the mainstream media criticizes him, & only because he is not radical enough for them!

I became aware of this more in the late '70s, early '80s. I voted for Carter in '76, but saw the unfair reporting tactics toward Reagan. The more i listened to him, the more i agreed with his position, even though i had to get my information from the left wing news filter. There was no 'right wing' news at the time. Many of our rich people.. movie stars, upper echelon academians, & celebrities are outspoken for the left.

rydnseek wrote:

Unlike the US, Norway is officially a Christian country. It is their state religion, & everyone is taught the official state tenets of that religion in school. It is hard to defend labels, whether we put them on ourselves or others do it for us. I do get weary of the constant labeling by the left, & their using it for their agenda & propaganda purposes. But I will accept the label of right wing, as also was our own Timothy McVeigh, which this Breivik seems to resemble the most. It is very eerie when we realize there are lone wolf people out there who are very intelligent, resourceful, & ruthless. They come up with a horrific plan & execute it methodically & coldly. They do not seem to have any conscience, & justify murder somehow in their minds.

rokka wrote:

Ok I know a lot of Norway since I have a quarter of Norwegian Blood in me. I’m not familiar with the relation between the Lutheran Church and the state of Norway. But I do know that Norway is a secular country. That means that the church of Norway’s importance in every Norwegians life in very limited. I say without any source that 90 % of all the Norwegians have contact with the Church on Funerals weddings baptizing and Confirmation. The last sacrament that I mentioned is losing more and more participants. When it comes to the claim that Norwegians are thought about the church in compulsory schools I had the same situation when I was I school I Sweden. It is not dramatic in any way. They do describe Lutheranism/protenstaism where dry way and most of the teachers are atheists that don’t exactly are thrilled of the subject. My country Sweden waged wars for hundreds of years for Protestantism but it is almost forgotten now and in the education system church was no issue other than in the plan that we most have.
The labels that many of you are using to understand things does more harm than understanding.
It works both ways, for instance every political journalist in Scandinavia always guess wrong about US opinions before elections. That has the same mechanism as Americans that tries to understand Scandinavian politics with the scale left right. The most right wing party in Norway and Sweden are on the border to national socialism. Traditional conservatives are one step to the left. Republicans and democrats are whery wide houses of ideas while Scandinavian has different parties.

I have no doubt that Norway & much of Europe are secular humanist in their philosophical views.. not christian. I was only making a side comment about the official religion being 'christian', so it is used as a political label there, more than here in the US. You have 'christian' parties, which do not necessarily describe any religious affiliation, but signify a political stance. We do not have that in the US. 'Christian' is used as a slur by the left, & it only applies as a religious term, unless it is combined with other slurs, like 'gun loving right wing christian terrorist'. When you use that term, perhaps it is more as a description of a political leaning, rather than a religious identity. I was making this point as a concession, to soften my critique of your use of the more inflammatory 'gun loving right wing christian' description regarding Breivik.

rokka wrote:

Quote :

But my point remains. The left is too quick to jump on any tragedy & label it as caused by their philosophical enemies. They use things like this to bash & smear their opponents, not to promote understanding or even simply report the event.

I think that both left and right are doing that, mostly in our papers second side that I mentioned earlier. In Sweden we had the policy of mutual understanding for decades but that is changing in a bad direction. With bad means polarization and a lack of respect of one and other views

I agree that the polarization is getting worse.. which is not necessarily a bad thing. It does make a difference what you believe, & ideas are at the root of every revolution. Historically, though, when you get the very heated division of political or philosophical views, & you stir in some racial or nationalistic pride, violence & war become the solution, & the extremists won't hesitate to urge their base to act. Our civil war in the 1800's is proof of that. 1930's Europe & especially Germany also illustrate that point.

rokka wrote:

Quote :

In an ironic flurry of smear, the US left is calling the tea party congressional representatives 'Terrorists', while the debt ceiling negotiations are going on. They won't even call real Muslim terrorists, 'terrorists'. Of course, they will call Breivik a terrorist, & save the good smear words for their opponents, rather than use them as descriptive terms. 'Nazi racists' is starting to be overdone.. people are getting tired of hearing that from the left all the time, so they need a new buzzword. 'Terrorist' seems to be the latest one for smearing the right.

First of all when you are addressing left and right to a European you most know that Democrats are a right wing party in most European countries. As I said to you earlier I know the tree for the fruits it bears. I have pathos of right and wrong and I think that most people do.
For instance we have in Finnish history( as a 2 quarters of Finn blood in my vaince) taboos of our history concerning civil war and to be allied with Nazi Germany that 70-90 years after the happenings are not ok to debate in public. I claim that we were allies to Nazi Germany( and was condemned as such in the peace treaty in Paris 1949), I claim that we did ethnic clancing in the occupied territories in Soviet. I claim that the death rate in our concentration camps for civilian Russians/military Russians was too high for a civilized country. I claim that we killed too many of our opponents in the civil war due to their political opinion. It is simply wrong doings and they don’t need to be label as nothing else than wrong doings. Most Finns will not agree and want to point at this and that. Wrong doings nothing else.

It is good to make those distinctions, so people are aware of the differences. I don't use 'democrat' & 'republican' as much, because it is really only party affiliation & not philosophical or political. Most Dems are on the left, & repubs the right in the US, but there are exceptions. Motokid quoted a left wing repub in another thread.

I will also agree that looking back, it is easier to make a moral judgement about past actions in your culture. Most of us in the US see the wrong done in slavery before the civil war, which was mostly over slavery. But it is also hard to judge past cultures using modern standards of 'civilization'. History is much more barbaric than we 'civilized' people would like to admit.

rokka wrote:

Quote :

I'll cut you some slack for language differences, & perhaps the unintended smear.. maybe you were just reporting the incident.. but your long description of him underscores what seems to be your intent.. to smear 'gun loving right wing Christians’ by lumping them all in with Breivik. Why 'gun loving'? Yes, Breivik owned guns. He bought them legally in a country where gun ownership is tightly controlled. But he used them to commit an atrocity. They were a tool for his purposes. Labeling him as 'gun loving' is a smear on gun enthusiasts & is a common tactic used by the left. “So it’s not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.” ..as Obama would say. But why not say 'bomb loving'? ..or 'fertilizer loving'?

I have been very clear with you one that one. I said these exact words: I am sure that Jäger is a very decent member of his community. How much clearer do you want me to be ? Do you think that we don’t have weapons in my family when we live in the wilderness ? And does your empati reach further than to a gun loving right winger. MY question to you would be do you see anything else in our debates that is smearing?
What he does need is some ethic training considering his language to his opponents. But that is my opinion and I might be wrong. When you get suspicious I advise you to ask yourself if it is simply because what I know of myself I think of others.

I would like to ad that we are very very sad of the loss of life and young lifes even if the lost lifes are of my political oponents that I fight in my political life.

Ok, then. Are you 'gun loving?' What was the point of using that term in your initial post? Breivik has not been described in the media as a firearms aficionado, so i don't see the point of your description, except to use it as a smear to other 'gun loving right wing' people who you & others would lump in together with Breivik. I only chided you for the use of, & what seemed to me to be the intent of the use of 'gun loving right wing christians.' It was partially accurate in scandanavia, perhaps, less so in the US. I don't care what you think of Jager, or me, or Motokid. We are having a discussion about current events, & i called you out for using inflammatory words for political purposes. If i am wrong & just being oversensitive, no problem. Your explanations should clear that up. But maybe you were trying to get a jab in to your philosophical opponents.. let the reader decide. I'll drop it. I made my point. 'nuff said.

I'm glad you did finally address the horrors of the act, & the senseless losses for the victims. That could have been a main point in your initial post.

Why not suspect the debate he was a lot like me…liberal right, Christian values and pro-Israel. So some asking by people how does someone like that become a terrorist who kills his own people??? Where is the motive for this? According to his views he should be out moaning about immigrants and grumbling about Sharia law, not committing cold blooded murder against teens. Evilness is universal and can come from your mother in the worst case. I don’t think any thing special about authors her because it is only the Wr250 forum.

twday wrote:

rokka wrote:

I have been very clear with you one that one. I said these exact words: I am sure that Jäger is a very decent member of his community. How much clearer do you want me to be ? Do you think that we don’t have weapons in my family when we live in the wilderness ? And does your empati reach further than to a gun loving right winger. MY question to you would be do you see anything else in our debates that is smearing?
What he does need is some ethic training considering his language to his opponents. But that is my opinion and I might be wrong. When you get suspicious I advise you to ask yourself if it is simply because what I know of myself I think of others.

I would like to ad that we are very very sad of the loss of life and young lifes even if the lost lifes are of my political oponents that I fight in my political life.

Well said.

Thank you sir !

mucker wrote:

...And , localy, we are having a gas shortage. Check CBC, Nova Scotia.
Lighnting storm, a couple weeks ago, is to blame.
we had some hard rain...but good overall.
Anywho, back to you...

Thank you sir !

Would you please insert a link abaout the fuel shortage in nova scottia. And if you please would tell me about the hockey in Nova scottia i would be very glad.

No problem
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/story/2011/08/02/ns-gas-shortage-supply.html

Was going to take a ride to the superbike races this weekend, 1.5 hrs away. And it's not in the busiest town, either. Anyways, I figure my tank's too small to push my luck.
I'll stay home and browse new fuel cells instead. We still have gas around here, Annapolis Valley, so far.
... our regulated price went down a cent yesterday...$1.29 a liter...I think...
Plus, I am an outcast, I don't follow hockey...I'm an MMA, JUDO, Boxing, kinda fan. Though many friends that are long time fanatics. Heck, the birthplace of hockey is a 20 min drive from here, Windsor , Nova Scotia.
Cheers.