News from your part of the world

Sad news in Sweden today is that our ice hockey goal keeper Stefan Liv died in a plane crash in Russia. The Russian KHL team Lokomotive's plane crashed and 42 people where killed.

http://www.aftonbladet.se/sportbladet/hockey/internationellt/khl/article13590227.ab

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Canada+best+reputation+world+study/5466035/story.html

rokka wrote:

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Canada+best+reputation+world+study/5466035/story.html

Yay for Kanuckstan.

+1
Congrats to our northern brethren & sistren for making #1!! Sweden, too for #2. Oz & kiwis round out the top 4. All great countries with industrious, hard working people. You deserve the recognition!

Happening now in the USA, day 11:
https://occupywallst.org/

Quote :

Below you will find the reasons why we are here on Wall Street and the changes we are fighting for:

OUR GRIEVANCES:

1.Campaign Finance Reform
All votes are no longer equal in our Democracy. Money must be put outside of politics, or politicians will continue to pander to those who contribute the most to their campaigns, rather than their own constituencies. Specifically, we abhor the decision by the Supreme Court in Citizens United v. FEC. Corporations are NOT people.
2.True Shared Sacrifice
While corporate profits have been skyrocketing and the wealthy have been getting wealthier, the average worker’s income has dramatically dropped. While the cost of living has exponentially increased, wages have not followed. It has been shown time and time again that tax cuts for the wealthy are NOT effective. Taxes on those who practice greed should be raised.
3.Equality in Justice
This great nation was founded on liberty, but also, on equality. When the balance of justice is swayed in favor of those with wealth, the very fabric of this nation is torn apart. The decision of a judge should not be based upon the race, creed, or wealth of an individual, but rather, the content of the case.
4.The End of the Revolving Door
The Obama administration was supposed to bring change and hope to our country, but instead, brought us into despair and insecurity. Those working in his administration are the very people whom we are fighting against. Those who enter Washington should not be representatives of the elites, but representatives of the people. One cannot simply enter an administration, reap its benefits, and simply exit.

(Live Stream) http://www.livestream.com/globalrevolution

Not much mainstream media coverage of this event.

aaronhall555 wrote:

Happening now in the USA, day 11:
https://occupywallst.org/
Not much mainstream media coverage of this event.

Possibly because it is mostly an embarrassing display of ignorance, even for the left trending media to stomach.

Where to start?

First, children, this country is not "our Democracy". You live in a Republic - if you don't know the difference, go back to grade school. The Founders were very big on that difference and left volumes of writing explaining why they rejected Democracy in favour of a Constitution-based Republic. Read more; blog less.

Second, corporations are indeed legal persons - and they are in Commonwealth parliamentary democracies, not just our republic. As are unions. As are advocacy groups like ACORN - you know, those other groups the "hate the rich" crowd doesn't mention when moaning about the Citizens United decision. The stupidity of these angry children to desperately demand limitations be placed on their First Amendment is sad indeed. Thinking you are defending your rights by demanding rights be diminished is truly pathetic. It makes one wonder what kind of people we are employing that shapes young minds in this manner in our colleges and universities. The First Amendment, should they bother to actually read it, protects SPEECH, not specific SPEAKERS. A quote from the decision might (okay, probably not) help our angry young Rebels Without A Clue:
"If the First Amendment has any force, it prohibits Congress from fining or jailing citizens, or associations of citizens, for simply engaging in political speech... since there was no way to distinguish between media and other corporations, these restrictions would allow Congress to suppress political speech in newspapers, books, television and blogs.... The lack of a textual exception for speech by corporations cannot be explained on the ground that such organizations did not exist or did not speak. To the contrary, colleges, towns and cities, religious institutions, and guilds had long been organized as corporations at common law and under the King’s charter, see 1 W. Blackstone, Commentaries on the Laws of England 455–473 (1765); 1 S. Kyd, A Treatise on the Law of Corporations 1–32, 63 (1793) (reprinted 2006), and as I have discussed, the practice of incorporation only expanded in the United States. Both corporations and voluntary associations actively petitioned the Government and expressed their views in newspapers and pamphlets. For example: An antislavery Quaker corporation petitioned the First Congress, distributed pamphlets, and communicated through the press in 1790"

The Court held that the First Amendment stands against attempts to distinguish among different speakers, which may be a means to control content. In so doing, the Court declared that the government cannot impose restrictions on certain disfavored speakers such as corporations. Or the NAACP. Or the Sierra Club. Or ACORN. And yet, apparently the children are still naive enough to want to give Congress the power to decide who can and cannot speak around the time of an election. Apparently, they are not in the great majority in this country who hold Congress in such disfavour and don't trust it.

Perhaps our angry young rebels should actually READ the Citizens United decision - rather than just railing against it on the basis of their hatred of corporations. For one thing, it protected their right to have their blogs and express their hatred and distrust of corporations and corporate interests during elections.

Interesting sidebar: our angry young rebels did not have a problem with this when, years earlier, the courts found that Michael Moore's company - a corporation - was protected from being silenced with his Farenheit 911 just prior to another election. It was only when Hillary, The Movie appeared that the left arose in outrage. Funny how that works.

And finally, of course, the class warfare: the hatred and envy of anyone with more money than you. Frankly, what the fuck do you care? Maybe if you spent more time in university or working, and less time on envy and hatred, you might be further ahead. Those "tax cuts for the rich"? Well, they are actually more properly termed "tax cuts for everybody" - the "rich" got the same tax breaks everybody else got.

But tax breaks for everybody is not enough. The "wealthy" should be punished for their hard work and success - they must be taxed MORE. The children like to term it tax on their greed; presumably, ten years in university or a decade working oil rigs or crab boats in the north, leading to "wealth", is proof of "greed". Not the result of "I busted my ass while you partied and worked at Wal-Mart." So, these people must be punished for their success with taxation. You know the type they want "From each according to his ability; to each according to their need". They weren't busting their asses right beside the "wealthy", but they surely believe they're entitled to a cut of the fruit of their labours.

It is right up there on the Stupid List just below the Zeitgeist and Venus Projects.

[quote="aaronhall555"]Happening now in the USA, day 11:

Quote :

Below you will find the reasons why we are here on Wall Street and the changes we are fighting for:

OUR GRIEVANCES:

1.Campaign Finance Reform
All votes are no longer equal in our Democracy. Money must be put outside of politics, or politicians will continue to pander to those who contribute the most to their campaigns, rather than their own constituencies. Specifically, we abhor the decision by the Supreme Court in Citizens United v. FEC. Corporations are NOT people.

I agree that campaign finance stinks.. Imo, it is worse with the govt. unions who get much of their money from the taxpayers, & then fund the candidates who will give them the goodies. But i'm afraid all we can do is regulate who contributes, & promote transparency (wasn't Obama supposed to do that?). Perhaps campaign ads should have disclaimers on them, like cigarette packages.

Quote :

2.True Shared Sacrifice
While corporate profits have been skyrocketing and the wealthy have been getting wealthier, the average worker’s income has dramatically dropped. While the cost of living has exponentially increased, wages have not followed. It has been shown time and time again that tax cuts for the wealthy are NOT effective. Taxes on those who practice greed should be raised.

Lots of mixed messages here.. & plenty of falsehoods. Lots more corporations have been getting poorer.. the economy has affected them, too. Some have gotten richer.. if they landed a big green industry contract like solyndra.. but most manufacturers, contractors, & plenty of financial institutions have gone belly up in this economy. Of course, the govt. picked a few winners that were 'too big to fail'. We should demand that govt. subsidies of businesses should end. This is basically a call for redistribution. And since the overt message of the protesters on wall street is the end of capitalism, their agenda is clear, even if some of their ideas seem reasonable.

Quote :

3.Equality in Justice
This great nation was founded on liberty, but also, on equality. When the balance of justice is swayed in favor of those with wealth, the very fabric of this nation is torn apart. The decision of a judge should not be based upon the race, creed, or wealth of an individual, but rather, the content of the case.

I agree with this. If there are cases before judges that have been swayed by money or position, there should be an investigation & the offenders should spend time in jail. But of course, these protesters have no specifics, just vague accusations of corruption.

Quote :

4.The End of the Revolving Door
The Obama administration was supposed to bring change and hope to our country, but instead, brought us into despair and insecurity. Those working in his administration are the very people whom we are fighting against. Those who enter Washington should not be representatives of the elites, but representatives of the people. One cannot simply enter an administration, reap its benefits, and simply exit.

Another good point. More transparency would expose those charlatans who only enter public service for personal gain. Why does not the mainstream media cover obvious corruption.. the solyndra scandal, waste in the DOJ, favors & corruption in the ATF? I'm sure there are lots more that we will never hear of, but our watchdog organizations should be blowing the whistle on fraud & corruption in the govt.

But these 'grievances' are mostly vague complaints, with no specifics, nor solutions. Their overt message is to destroy capitalism, & have some form of socialism or anarchy be the rule. It seems to me they are mostly a bunch of young rainbow kids who don't want to work, but lay around smoking pot & letting someone else support them.

Quote :

Not much mainstream media coverage of this event.

Their message is so fragmented & loopy that i'm not surprised.. even the left is a bit embarrassed by them. I did see a few blips on CNN & Fox. Of course, it would be nice to know who the organizers are, what their true motives are, & who is financing all these people. Fox said one of George Soros' organizations is funding them, but a more detailed investigation would be in order. I doubt if the left wing media will bother, since it has the effect of making them look bad.

And how does having a bunch of pot smoking rainbow kids denigrating capitalism help the left's cause? Are they hoping a spontaneous uprising from the youth, storming financial institutions, grabbing all the money, then going door to door handing out each person's share?

rydnseek wrote:

And how does having a bunch of pot smoking rainbow kids denigrating capitalism help the left's cause? Are they hoping a spontaneous uprising from the youth, storming financial institutions, grabbing all the money, then going door to door handing out each person's share?

Ah... no... they're not quite that altruistic:

About 700 protesters demonstrating against corporate greed, global warming and social inequality, among other grievances, were arrested Saturday night in New York after they swarmed the Brooklyn Bridge and shut down traffic for several hours.

Erin Larkins, a graduate student at Columbia University who says she and her boyfriend have $130,000 combined in student loan debt, was among the thousands of protesters on the bridge. She said a friend persuaded her to join the march and she's glad she did.

"I don't think we're asking for much," Larkins wrote in an email to The Associated Press... etc and so forth, ad nauseum...

No, these people who claim they're protesting corporate greed don't want the money redistributed to the poor. They want it redistributed to THEM to pay off the bills they've racked up in 12+ years of university. Pity The Associated Press didn't ask them if their plan would be to later reimburse taxpayers for picking up the tab for their education, once their masters or doctorate gets them a six figure income, possibly as a tenured professor. Their greed is apparently different...

Jäger wrote:

rydnseek wrote:

And how does having a bunch of pot smoking rainbow kids denigrating capitalism help the left's cause? Are they hoping a spontaneous uprising from the youth, storming financial institutions, grabbing all the money, then going door to door handing out each person's share?

Ah... no... they're not quite that altruistic:

About 700 protesters demonstrating against corporate greed, global warming and social inequality, among other grievances, were arrested Saturday night in New York after they swarmed the Brooklyn Bridge and shut down traffic for several hours.

Erin Larkins, a graduate student at Columbia University who says she and her boyfriend have $130,000 combined in student loan debt, was among the thousands of protesters on the bridge. She said a friend persuaded her to join the march and she's glad she did.

"I don't think we're asking for much," Larkins wrote in an email to The Associated Press... etc and so forth, ad nauseum...

No, these people who claim they're protesting corporate greed don't want the money redistributed to the poor. They want it redistributed to THEM to pay off the bills they've racked up in 12+ years of university. Pity The Associated Press didn't ask them if their plan would be to later reimburse taxpayers for picking up the tab for their education, once their masters or doctorate gets them a six figure income, possibly as a tenured professor. Their greed is apparently different...

Oh, but it's okay that some corporations get bailed out and are not expected to pay that back...?

A quote I found, not sure if it is true are not, but I wouldn't put it passed them:
"Seems like the NYPD are working for the 1%. JPMorgan Chase donated $4.6 million to the NYPD. The Police State that is occurring in this country is another step towards fascism. I don't recognize my country anymore."

Also, about 700 protesters demonstrating were arrested and still didn't even make a dent in the protesters numbers or moral. Plus it's happening all across the nation now, and has been happening all over the world for quite some time now. Still a "non-story"? At least it show's up in news.google.com now.

aaronhall555 wrote:

Oh, but it's okay that some corporations get bailed out and are not expected to pay that back...?

No, I personally don't think it is okay to bail out corporations. Or proprietorships. Or individuals. Any more than I think it is okay to give half a billion dollars to a "green energy" company to drive your political agenda.

On the other hand, when corporations are FORCED by federal legislation to give loans to unqualified borrowers by federal legislation, forced to take on risky Fanny/Freddy mortgages by regulations, and are assured by federal committee chairmen like Barney Frank that these mortgages are sound AND BACKED BY THE FULL FAITH AND CREDIT OF THE US... do you think there might be just a little bit of legitimacy when they come calling and point out that the federal government had a lot to do with why they made those loans in the first place, purchased those derivatives in the first place, etc?

Should they have been told "Sorry about that, yes, those were our regulations/legislation and that's what we told you, and we obligated you to do some things and reassured you that you couldn't lose on others. But it just sucks to be you."

I don't agree with ANY bailouts unless they have lots of strings attached and the taxpayer is going to get their money back somehow or other. It does appear, to some extent, that taxpayers are being repaid: under those circumstances do you wish to call it a bailout or a loan? But it is both childish and uninformed to think these companies happily chose to lend their money to unqualified lenders at no-money-down-chase-me-around terms, instead of lending to more reliable customers at higher interest rates.

You'll note, that as you mentioned, it was "some corporations" that got bailouts. Many more did not.

Let us now turn to our poor graduate students working on their PhDs, who have collectively run up $130k in student LOANS and now feel that the taxpayers should pick up the tab for their education. A few thoughts on that.

Do they propose that just "some students" get bailouts like some corporations; or all of them? If just some, then who? The most valuable students - the ones attending classes and working their asses off instead of blowing a week or two protesting? Who gets to decide?

There's a few differences between these students and those corporations as well.

I don't recall any government legislation/regulations that obligated them to embark on a post secondary degree, much less a PhD.

I don't recall any government promises that they would get their tuition back, or that their tuition was backed by the full faith and credit of the US.

I don't recall any of the student corporate haters out there vowing that they will never work for those evil corporations when they get their graduate degree? Or that once they're tenured professors, cashing in on that PhD, etc, they'll pay back taxpayers for their "bailout" once the money is rolling in? If J.P. Morgan looks at that graduate degree of theirs and offers to start them at $150k a year, with all sorts of benefits, will they turn their noses up at it?

And I REALLY don't recall any of those students demanding that those evil Wall Street corporations quite donating millions of dollars to the universities they attend. Why would that be, do you suppose?

I also don't recall any of those students demanding an end to the ongoing taxpayer bailouts of the colleges and universities they attend - from long before the corporate bailouts, and continuing probably until the end of time. Shouldn't universities pay their own way without welfare, just like corporations - those entities that so many pension and retirement funds are invested in? Is a strong young guy like you more entitled to taxpayer assistance for your education but the corporations where so much of your grandparent's retirement funds are invested (because they grow funds better than money stuffed beneath the mattress) are entitled to nothing?

Quote :

A quote I found, not sure if it is true are not, but I wouldn't put it passed them:
"Seems like the NYPD are working for the 1%. JPMorgan Chase donated $4.6 million to the NYPD. The Police State that is occurring in this country is another step towards fascism. I don't recognize my country anymore."

Well, there you have it folks. That happens to be true and it is all the proof we need of a massive conspiracy. The most talented minds among our young students have ferreted it out - JP Morgan has the NYPD working for them.

Of course, they also donated about a million to Obama, so he's on their payroll as well.

But it gets worse. Are you ready for this?

They've also donated millions and millions of dollars to scores of colleges and universities in the US. OMG! (is that the proper term?) JP Morgan has the UNIVERSITIES working for them along with the NYPD! They've pulling the strings for the student demonstrators on the one side, and the strings of the NYPD on the other! The whole protest is MANUFACTURED BY JP MORGAN!

And even worse, look at all the other organizations donating money to the NYPD. One Jewish organization alone - nearly a million dollars! So the Jews are controlling the NYPD as well - didn't you just know it!

In fact, when you look at all the corporations, societies, individuals, etc that have donated to the NYPD (all of which is approved by the Mayor's Office, of course), it is probably extremely difficult on any given day for the NYPD to tell who they're working for on that specific day.

Quote :

Also, about 700 protesters demonstrating were arrested and still didn't even make a dent in the protesters numbers or moral. Plus it's happening all across the nation now, and has been happening all over the world for quite some time now. Still a "non-story"? At least it show's up in news.google.com now.

Yeah, still a "non-story". Let me know when anyone in the real world bothers to listen to this bunch of whiny, self important people who think they're entitled to freebies from the rest of society from cradle to grave. It's pretty hard to take anyone seriously whose employment/course load/family commitments are so light that they can hang around protesting Wall Street for a week or two.

Winter is here

http://www.nsd.se/nyheter/kiruna/artikel.aspx?ArticleId=6449090

Another story that has apparently slid under the attention of the Occupy Wall Street crowd and the mainstream North American media. We have Obama supporter Warren Buffet saying "the rich" should be taxed more - while spending millions of dollars on lawyers and accountants to avoid paying millions and millions of dollars in taxes going back nearly a decade. And now Solyndra, with chief investor and Obama supporter George Kaiser not paying any taxes at all.

Odd these folks aren't mentioned by Obama in his speeches about Buffet's secretary's taxes and "the rich" who don't pay their fair share, no? Most do, of course - but why aren't the exceptions like Buffet and Kaiser in the public spotlight for what they are (quite legally) doing to avoid taxes? Why just the generic rants about "the rich" - who as a group pay the majority of the income taxes in the US?

Anyway, the story:

Solyndra funder Kaiser paid zero taxes for years


President Obama toured the Solyndra manufacturing facility in California in 2010. The bankrupt
firm, which received a $535 million federal loan guarantee under the Obama economic stimulus
program, is now being investigated by Congress, the FBI and the Treasury Department's Inspector-
General. (AP Photos)

Oklahoma billionaire George Kaiser has been in the headlines in recent months thanks to his role as
a major investor in Solyndra LLC, the now-bankrupt California solar panel maker hailed by
President Obama as a model for America's "clean energy future."

Congress is investigating why the Obama administration gave Solyndra a $535 million loan guarantee
despite multiple warnings from career bureaucrats and private sector investment experts that the
company was a poor risk, lacked a realistic business model and was likely to go bankrupt as a result.

Other investigations are being conducted by the FBI and the Treasury Department's Inspector-General,
and the issue is likely to remain on the public mind throughout the 2012 presidential campaign as
Republicans claim Solyndra's failure demonstrates that government "cannot pick winners and losers in
the marketplace."

Because Kaiser was a campaign "bundler" - an individual who collects contributions to a candidate from
others that are then simultaneously given to the candidate - who raised about $250,000 for Obama
during the 2008 campaign, congressional Republicans and media analysts have speculated that the
Solyndra loan guarantee was nothing more than using tax dollars to reward a political supporter.

But the Solyndra scandal is far from Kaiser's first brush with political controversy. As the Sunlight
Foundation's Bill Allison reports today, Kaiser has become extraordinarily wealthy by taking advantage
of the federal tax code in ways that some tax experts - including the IRS - believe to be illegal.

As Allison describes it in his Sunlight post today, "in one six year period, during which he increased his
net worth enough to land him on the Forbes list of the 400 wealthiest Americans, Kaiser reported
taxable income to the Internal Revenue Service just once, totaling $11,699--equivalent to a full-time
hourly wage of $5.62."

During the 1980s bust in the oil industry in Oklahoma and Texas, Kaiser bought up struggling energy
companies whose losses provided him with tax deductions that effectively hid his own income.

As an example, Allison points to Kaiser's purchase of Waterford Energy, "which had all of $7 million in
assets and some $151 million in losses on its books. The losses were valuable--under the Internal
Revenue Code, a company can use past losses as credits, known as net operating losses, to reduce
their tax burden in profitable years."

That acquiring the firm's losses for his tax use was a key reason for Kaiser's purchase of Waterford
was acknowledged when the firm "filed a plan of reorganization in a Texas bankruptcy court that
stated that one of the principal motivations of the plan was to 'preserve the tax attributes of the
debtor in order to allow the debtor to realize the benefits of the tax attributes,'" according to Allison.

But in 1997, the IRS rejected the Waterford losses, Allison reports, saying "losses resulting from
acquisitions made to evade or avoid income tax are prohibited." Kaiser challenged the IRS in court
and ultimately settled with the tax agency for $3.7 million, or 15 cents on the dollar.

Great pic! These are the people who want to restructure the US? Run the country? What useful, intelligent, responsible member of society can find three or four weeks away from university studies, a job, wife and kids, to "occupy anything"?

Occupy Wall Street cleanup postponed


Occupy Wall Street protesters partake in a celebratory march on Friday after learning that they would not be evicted from New
York City's Zuccotti Park temporarily for cleaning. (Jessica Rinaldi/Reuters)

New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg said a planned cleanup of a private park occupied by Wall Street protesters for a month
was postponed after the park's owners received threatening calls from the city's elected public officials.

Speaking on his weekly radio commentary on New York's WOR Radio, Bloomberg said he didn't know who made the threats, CNN
reported.

"Late last night, we received notice from the owners of Zuccotti Park — Brookfield Properties — that they are postponing their
scheduled cleaning of the park, and for the time being withdrawing their request from earlier in the week for police assistance
during their cleaning operation," NYC Deputy Mayor Cas Holloway said in a statement issued before Bloomberg's comments.

The company believes it can make arrangements with the protesters to "ensure the park remains clean, safe, available for public
use," Holloway's statement said. The protesters had said the plan to clean the park was an excuse to shut them down.

The movement has also drawn reaction from world leaders, including U.S. President Barack Obama, Walesa, Iran's Ayatollah Ali
Khamenei and former Russian president Mikhail Gorbachev.

Khamenei said Wednesday that the wave of protests reflects a serious problem that will ultimately topple capitalism in America.
He claimed the United States is in a full-blown crisis because its "corrupt foundation has been exposed to the American people."

So, an Iranian Ayatollah and a former lifelong Soviet Union Politibureau member are enthusiastic supporters of "Occupy Wall Street"? Cool!

It kind of says it all that, not only do these people feel entitled to a free ride for life, but they also feel entitled to occupy somebody's private property, foul it with their personal waste, and then resist attempts of the property owner to clean (at their personal expense) the filth they've produced from their property. The Service Employees International Union was bussing protestors in to swell the numbers, providing logistic support, etc - couldn't they have spent just a little bit more of their union members' money cleaning up the filth these people produced on somebody else's property? Instead of letting it accumulate to the point the property owner had to prepare to spend their own money to clean up after this collection of swine?

The "nonviolence" that the these plastic hippies and their supporters claim to be their operating mode is a joke. There is nothing peaceful about invading and occupying another person's property. There is nothing peaceful about fouling another person's property - or even public property - with your personal filth and waste and inflicting your filth and stench on the private property owner or the rest of the public.

I have this mental vision of what they and their parents would think if a group of people protesting plastic hippies showed up at their house, set up tents on the lawn, and crapped in the garden and pissed on the shrubs. Would they smile tolerantly and mumble some platitudes about "freedom of expression"? Or would they call the cops and demand they run them off?

The structuring, organization, and planning that the "leaderless" protest is getting from unions - and union leaders who amount to Marxist economic terrorists with links to the White House - gives insight as well. Excerpted from a recent full length article:

...As "Occupy Wall Street" demonstrations have gone national, observers are taking note of the prominent role of labor unions
in this anti-business crusade. The rote denunciations of "corporate greed" at these events could have been lifted from almost any AFL-CIO
convention speech. That doesn't necessarily mean union organizers are putting words in protestors' mouths. Yet it does suggest organized
labor and street radicals recognize each other as natural allies. Given their overlapping worlds, it's fitting that one of the prime movers
behind this far-Left, multi-city sturm und drang festival is the Service Employees International Union (SEIU), some of whose operatives
literally wrote the book on wrecking the credibility of major companies.

It is in New York where unions are pouring in the most resources. The Amalgamated Transit Union (ATU), the Service Employees
International Union (SEIU) and the International Brotherhood of Teamsters have publicly endorsed Occupy Wall Street. Its president, Larry
Hanley, a member of the AFL-CIO executive committee, praises local members for voicing "huge support" for Occupy Wall Street.
"Working people's voices have been drowned out by huge money," he stated. The New York State United Teachers (NYSUT), also allied with
the AFL-CIO and representing an estimated 600,000 employees, has endorsed Occupy Wall Street as well. Sounding much like the
protestors, NYSUT spokesman Carl Korn puts it this way: "Teachers and public employees represent the other 99 percent; they are not in
the 1 percent. We're supportive of that overarching message." The national leadership of the American Federation of State, County and
Municipal Employees (AFSCME) and the CWA also support the demonstrators. Prominent New York City-area unions providing backing
include Service Employees Local 1199 and Transport Workers Union Local 100. Support consists of more than just words. Unions have bused
members to Zuccotti Park to take part in protests, conducted onsite teach-ins, and strategized with Occupy Wall Street leaders. SEIU Local
1199 has supplied clothes, water and pizza to park occupiers. And the big cheese himself, AFL-CIO President Richard Trumka, recently paid
them a visit.

If one union leader more than any other epitomizes the effort to instill discipline and aggression in the anarchic, non-hierarchical world of the
protestors, it is Stephen Lerner, an SEIU board member and longtime operative of that union. His specialty, as Union Corruption Update noted
at length in April, is sabotaging the reputation of banks and corporations. During the mid Eighties, the shadowy Lerner helped launch the
union's "Justice for Janitors" campaign in cities across the U.S., using tactics of extreme public intimidation to force high-rise building
contractors into signing master contracts with unorganized workers. Lerner this past March was caught on audiotape speaking before an
audience at Pace University in Manhattan describing a five-point plan to undermine the entire U.S. economy, a campaign to be led by the SEIU
and other unions, with selected community groups serving as fronts.

Lerner, a revolutionary who knows a teachable moment when he sees one, isn't letting this moment in history go to waste. At an October 3
conference in Washington, D.C., "Take Back the American Dream," he remarked: "We have solutions. We just have to build it bigger and
larger." He believes in attacking CEOs personally so as to render them social pariahs. At a meeting of SEIU Local 1775 in Seattle this
September 22, he declared: "We've got to be clear on the human beings who are bad," singling out JPMorgan Chase CEO Jamie Dimon as
an appropriate individual for mass hatred. Lerner sees the bad guys as not even 1 percent of the population. He may well be behind some
of the recent urban occupations, too - a recent unattributed photo of an Occupy Chicago rally would suggest as much.

At the very least, he's got important people listening to him. Lerner has been a visitor to the Obama White House at least four times. That's
not nearly as often as his mentor, former SEIU President Andrew Stern, but it's still more than virtually all of his opponents can claim.

I support unions, but this isn't a union organization representing its' members with their employer. This is a bunch of barking mad, left wing socialists and statists who have gained positions where they have access to large amounts of union dues to fund their Marxist idiology and activities. Which is perfectly legal - and if union members paying those dues are happy with the political direction people like Lerner want the country to go in, and approve of how he spends their dues, then what business is it of anybody else's? But why, exactly, do we give Big Unions tax exempt status as their leaders pop in and out of the White House, while listening to rants about how Big Business has too much influence with government and doesn't pay their fair share?

Don't you just love it when people get exactly what they want - from their comrades embracing the same values?

It appears that the "redistribute the wealth", "I deserve a cut of what the wealthy earn through their hard work", crowd has began acting proactively to achieve their demands.

But it appears they're starting the "redistribution"... among themselves. I just love a story like this:

Thieves preying on fellow protesters

By LARRY CELONA, LAURA ITALIANO REBECCA HARSHBARGER, FRANK ROSARIO and JAMIE SCHRAM

It’s a den of thieves!

Occupy Wall Street protesters said yesterday that packs of brazen crooks within their ranks have
been robbing their fellow demonstrators blind, making off with pricey cameras, phones and
laptops -- and even a hefty bundle of donated cash and food.

“Stealing is our biggest problem at the moment,” said Nan Terrie, 18, a kitchen and legal-team
volunteer from Fort Lauderdale.

“I had my Mac stolen -- that was like $5,500. Every night, something else is gone. Last night, our
entire [kitchen] budget for the day was stolen, so the first thing I had to do was . . . get the
message out to our supporters that we needed food!”

Crafty cat burglars sneaked into the makeshift kitchen at Zuccotti Park overnight and swiped as
much as $2,500 in donated greenbacks from right under the noses of volunteers who’d fallen
asleep after a long day whipping up meals for the hundreds of hungry protesters, the volunteers
said.

“The worst thing is there’s people sleeping in the kitchen when they come, and they don’t even
know about it! There are some really smart and sneaky thieves here,” Terrie said.

“I had umbrellas stolen, a fold-up bed I brought because my back is bad -- they took that, too!”

Security volunteer Harry Wyman, 22, of Brooklyn was furious about the thievery -- and vowed to
get tough with the predatory perps.

“I’m not getting paid, but I’m not gonna stand for it. Why people got to come here and do stupid
stuff? All it does is make people not wanna come here anymore,” Wyman fumed.

At one point yesterday, Wyman and other volunteers briefly scuffled with a man who was standing
near a park entrance with a pail calling out: “Donations! Donations!” -- and pocketing the cash
people tossed in the bucket.

I'm a little confused about they're complaining about. Isn't the essence of their complaint (however muddied their message) that those who have must give a cut of what they own to those who have not? What's the problem when one of their own who can't afford a $6000 Mac takes the Mac of somebody who obviously can afford one?

Perhaps their problem is that it is okay they demand the government steal the wealth from others to redistribute it to them - but what they own shouldn't be redistributed among their comrades, by their comrades.

It kind of fits in with the rest of the news that the mainstream media isn't reporting. Some excerpts from radio coverage of Occupy Wall Street in New York being streamed live via the Internet.

"The Jews control Wall Street"

"These Zionist Jews controlling the big banks and Wall Street...".

A quick tour of YouTube shows several videos of Occupy Wall Street speakers making anti-Semitic comments. And it's been going on for weeks now.

While the mainstream media and Obama/the Democrats are helpfully providing a platform for those protesting everything, is there any particular reason Obama and the media have chosen to exercise bias and not mention that there has been an ongoing undercurrent of at least SOME anti-Semitic activity in this movement? And perhaps more importantly, that those making these remarks are not booed or shouted down by the other protesters present listening to those remarks? One person making those remarks is a crackpot; when others hear those remarks and say/do nothing, that is something else again.

Where are those who are so eager to make "bigoted twat" remarks when there's even a faint possibility that a Republican might be prejudiced?

Should we ask ourselves if Obama, the Democrats, and the media would have covered such comments if they had occurred at a Tea Party rally?

The Occupy Wall Street movement has been endorsed by both the US Communist Party and the American Nazi Party (linky to their statement of support).

Quite an interesting blend the Occupy Wall Street movement has proven to be. Nazis, Communists, thieves, radical Marxist union activists, anarchists, the usual crowd of useful idiots... and just plain thieves. And endorsed by Ayatollah's and former Soviet Union Politiburo members.

Jäger, I think your time would be better spent actually finding info about the movement, like actually listening to why they are out there, instead of trying to find articles that are clearly just trying to discredit these people and also negative organizations that are trying to "take over" or claim the movement for their own agenda.

See http://www.occupywallst.org/ to find out what this decentralized but organized protest is ACTUALLY about. There are multiple live feeds so you can actually see what is going on 24/7.

Let's face it, OUR system is broken, other wise there wouldn't be this much discontent and corruption with it. It's apparent all around the world and Canada is no exception.

Do you not agree with these grievances?

Quote :

1.Campaign Finance Reform
All votes are no longer equal in our Democracy. Money must be put outside of politics, or politicians will continue to pander to those who contribute the most to their campaigns, rather than their own constituencies. Specifically, we abhor the decision by the Supreme Court in Citizens United v. FEC. Corporations are NOT people.

2.True Shared Sacrifice
While corporate profits have been skyrocketing and the wealthy have been getting wealthier, the average worker’s income has dramatically dropped. While the cost of living has exponentially increased, wages have not followed. It has been shown time and time again that tax cuts for the wealthy are NOT effective. Taxes on those who practice greed should be raised.

3.Equality in Justice
This great nation was founded on liberty, but also, on equality. When the balance of justice is swayed in favor of those with wealth, the very fabric of this nation is torn apart. The decision of a judge should not be based upon the race, creed, or wealth of an individual, but rather, the content of the case.

4.The End of the Revolving Door
The Obama administration was supposed to bring change and hope to our country, but instead, brought us into despair and insecurity. Those working in his administration are the very people whom we are fighting against. Those who enter Washington should not be representatives of the elites, but representatives of the people. One cannot simply enter an administration, reap its benefits, and simply exit.

That's why the 99% are dissatisfied with our system, and I support them for their efforts. I would be out there with them if I didn't have a job that compensates me just enough to survive, but I'm not that content with just surviving, I want to thrive, and this system is not making that very obtainable to me or many many others. I'm extremely lucky to have a job right now, mostly because of my family.

aaronhall555 wrote:

That's why the 99% are dissatisfied with our system, and I support them for their efforts.

I'm going to quote the last of your post first, just to get your head out of the clouds and your feet somewhere close to the ground.

They (and you) don't represent 99% of the population. Not even close. So quit sniffing glue and believing you represent 99% of the population. What the hell makes you babble on about "99%" when it is so blatantly obvious that isn't so? Because some Marxist demagogue with a loudspeaker keeps repeating it?

If you find that hard to grasp, may I point out that the release of the latest iPhone - a corporate product from one of those evil corporations paying their officers millions of dollars in salaries and benefits - got greater turnouts and crowds than all the Occupy Whatever gatherings. There's a hint in that for you.

Quote :

Jäger, I think your time would be better spent actually finding info about the movement, like actually listening to why they are out there, instead of trying to find articles that are clearly just trying to discredit these people and also negative organizations that are trying to "take over" or claim the movement for their own agenda.

I did listen. To what the Nazis had to say. The anarchists. The communists. The anti-Semites. The SEIU handlers.

Oh... you don't want me to listen to THOSE protestors. No problem - as soon as you can explain why they aren't booed right out of the area instead of given space. I don't discredit you - by your own actions you discredit yourselves.

Quote :

See http://www.occupywallst.org/ to find out what this decentralized but organized protest is ACTUALLY about. There are multiple live feeds so you can actually see what is going on 24/7.

Oh yes, the managed propaganda by professional protestors and agitators is fairly well done. Do you find the same irony in it that I do - that they use all the toys and devices that capitalism and corporations provide to protest against capitalism and corporations?

The unscripted, unmanaged stuff coming from the Occupy Whatever crowd is a bit closer to the truth - kinda like catching Obama without a teleprompter. Like when the protesters complain that they're being ripped off left and right by fellow protesters. Not just the odd occurance mind you - epidemic. Ever hear complaints like that come out of one of those evil Tea Party rallies? Ever hear about people complaining about all the filth and human waste being produced by a Tea Party rally? Ever see people publicly doing drugs and having sex at a Tea Party rally?

The SEIU Marxists and other community agitators/activists can manage and manipulate some of the message going out. What they can't control is the demographics of those actively participating and being tolerated and listened to, any more than they can prevent them from speaking THEIR minds and displaying their conduct. If I wanted to hear what Stephen Lerner thinks, I'd just go ask Stephen Lerner. I wouldn't be so gullible as to think that Stephen Lerner actually represents the mob at Occupy Whatever.

Quote :

Let's face it, OUR system is broken, other wise there wouldn't be this much discontent and corruption with it. It's apparent all around the world and Canada is no exception.

Once again, put down the crack pipe and quit thinking 99% of the population agrees with you. Take a look around you for God's sakes - if 99% agreed with you, there wouldn't be any discussion over this, it would be a done deal.

Since man first formed societies, people have been moaning "our system is broken". What that usually means is "I ain't getting enough bennies from government". Take a look at the polling done at Occupy Whatever - over 40% of Americans self identify as conservatives - that doesn't conform with what the Occupy mob wants.

People are ALWAYS pissed off with their governments; always have been, always will be. Nobody wants to run for office, but they sure as hell know what is wrong and what a lousy job the guys who did are doing. Funny how that works.

The system is broken? Really? Did you go to bed worrying about being snatched by a death squad? Did you wonder whether there will actually be an election ever allowed again? Did you worry whether you would be able to find clean drinking water tomorrow?

The only thing "broken" is that government can't give the disaffected enough to satisfy their personal greed and expectations. "I didn't get a free education. Waaaaa!" "The government actually expects me to pay back my loans. Waaaaa!", "That guy makes way more money than I do. I want some of his. Waaaa!". Give your heads a shake, children.

Is government perfect? Not hardly - never was, never will be, even if we were to hand the country over to the Marxists and statists out there. There will always be excess, waste, those working for their own self interest. And that's why you have a vote, and a right to work with grassroots parties to deal with those, along with the right to civil disobedience. If you believe you are going to find some magical government and government regulations that will deliver Utopia, you are going to have a life full of disappointment

Quote :

Do you not agree with these grievances?

Quote :

1.Campaign Finance Reform
All votes are no longer equal in our Democracy. Money must be put outside of politics, or politicians will continue to pander to those who contribute the most to their campaigns, rather than their own constituencies. Specifically, we abhor the decision by the Supreme Court in Citizens United v. FEC. Corporations are NOT people.

That right there qualifies those who "abhor" the Citizens United decision as morons.

But let me guess - you, personally, have never bothered to read it, have you? Come on, 'fess up, you haven't. Too boring. Let me make a wild-assed guess and say that I doubt that even one in one thousand of the Occupy crowd have bothered to read it. Maybe you should do yourself a favour and do that. By the way, have you read Locke yet?

You'd happily throw away your 1st amendment rights because you think it would be a shot at evil corporations to do so. That decision is what would allow the Occupy fools to be activists and preserve their civil right to put their message out during any election.

By the way, in all the ranting going on about "money outside of politics", has even ONE WORD been said about groups like ACORN and unions like the SEIU and the money they pour into politicians like Barack Obama and his political campaigns? The access they enjoy to the White House? You guys in Occupy are shacked up with some of the biggest money bundlers and political lobbyists of all time, and you've got such a hard-on for corporations you can't see past the ends of your noses.

And by the way, for the numbskulls at Occupy, corporations ARE legal persons. Which makes it possible to do assorted things to them - like sue them, for example.

Quote :

2.True Shared Sacrifice
While corporate profits have been skyrocketing and the wealthy have been getting wealthier, the average worker’s income has dramatically dropped. While the cost of living has exponentially increased, wages have not followed. It has been shown time and time again that tax cuts for the wealthy are NOT effective. Taxes on those who practice greed should be raised.

I have more respect for an armed robber - at least he doesn't pretend to be anything other than a thief forceably stealing other peoples' wealth.

The IRS reported that the number of millionaires and billionaires in the US has decreased significantly in the last four years. So how is it that the wealthy are getting wealthier when their numbers are dropping?

And frankly, what fucking business is it of yours or anybody else's as to what a corporation's shareholders decide they will or won't pay their officers? That's for the shareholders to decide, not the nitwits outside the company who feel entitled to demand the government meddle.

What "tax cuts" did the "wealthy" get that nobody else got? Be specific - name the tax cut given only to the wealthy that you're so pissed off about. You must have ONE in mind, at least.

Do you even know what the highest tax rate was (ie the tax rate for the wealthy) when George Bush took office versus when Obama took office.

Tax those who "practice greed"? Oh, okay... can we tax the hell out of all union members who work overtime and thus prevent their company having to hire an unemployed person to do the excess work? Can we tax the hell out of all the government union workers making way more than their private sector counterparts? And if we're going to tax those who "practice greed" - how about those who pay nothing in income tax, often get cheques for tax credits although they paid no taxes... and yet demand they be given a share of what other people made through their labours.

The biggest example of personal greed is sitting in its own filth right now at the Occupy Whatever movements. They want government to redistribute the wealth of others to them, without them doing one thing to earn that money. They just arrogantly have decided they're entitled to it.

Quote :

3.Equality in Justice
This great nation was founded on liberty, but also, on equality. When the balance of justice is swayed in favor of those with wealth, the very fabric of this nation is torn apart. The decision of a judge should not be based upon the race, creed, or wealth of an individual, but rather, the content of the case.

Tell Bernie Madoff how he got a break because he was wealthy... Then explain how the two Black Panthers who were intimidating voters with clubs during the last presidential election and got caught doing it on video weren't prosecuted. Were they actually two rich guys in disguise?

Quote :

4.The End of the Revolving Door
The Obama administration was supposed to bring change and hope to our country, but instead, brought us into despair and insecurity. Those working in his administration are the very people whom we are fighting against. Those who enter Washington should not be representatives of the elites, but representatives of the people. One cannot simply enter an administration, reap its benefits, and simply exit.

Oh, the despair of it all. You voted for hope (kinda like buying a lottery ticket - you hope you'll win), and all you're left with is spare change. Really, should we feel sorry for anyone who was stupid enough to buy into that snake oil? You're adult enough to run your own household (theoretically), and yet you actually believed that crap?

Well, you'll know better next time, won't you.

BTW, once again I see there's no mention of union activists and community organizers in that, although the SEIU alone has been a regular visitor at the White House.

Quote :

I would be out there with them if I didn't have a job that compensates me just enough to survive, but I'm not that content with just surviving, I want to thrive, and this system is not making that very obtainable to me or many many others. I'm extremely lucky to have a job right now, mostly because of my family.

You are on the cusp of having a bitter life. And it will be one of your own choosing. You're in your early 20's and you don't have everything? Oh, the shame of it all.

Do you actually think your current circumstances are harder than what people growing up in the Dirty 30's faced? You've got it tougher than a guys like Herman Cain faced, growing up poor and black in the segregated South of the time? Do you wish you were as well off as the Vietnamese Boat People, most of whom landed in the US with nothing but the clothes on their back and unable to speak English?

What kind of a job would you like the government to bring you for Christmas? Would you like it wrapped in green or red paper?

If the government beats up on "the wealthy" for you, will you get a better job delivered to your door?

If they tax the crap out of "the rich" while leaving everybody else alone, just how many more jobs do you estimate that will create? If the results could be transformed into a cheque, one to be sent out to every citizen and illegal immigrant in the US, how much do you estimate your cheque will be for? Will it be enough to give you happiness?

You want a better life? Then quit whining about what other people have, ditch the pity party and the envy, quit waiting for the government to wipe your bum for you from cradle to grave, take some personal responsibility, and go do something for yourself.

The military is hiring. Now maybe you're too good or too special to serve in the military, but if you're not, you choose the right trade you'll get out to ample demand AND have the GI Bill to use to advance your education.

Don't like the military? Fine. The oil patch in the Dakotas/Montana is going crazy. You can't find a hotel half the time when you go over there pheasant hunting. If you're not afraid of physical labour or can learn how to drive a truck, there's lots of high paying work to be had there - there's pages of advertisements for jobs there.

Those aren't the only opportunities out there. So you can either grow a pair, accept responsibility for your future, and go make something happen. Or you can sit and whine with the rest of the Occupy losers and pray that somehow or other the remainder of Americans will see it your way and with you elect a government that can magically give you happiness. That approach can be put with the rest of the "hope" schtick.

Saab continues to be an issue. No cars have been made since last spring. Now Chinese interests have bought the company.

http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article13853654.ab

aaronhall555 wrote:

Jäger, I think your time would be better spent actually finding info about the movement, like actually listening to why they are out there, instead of trying to find articles that are clearly just trying to discredit these people and also negative organizations that are trying to "take over" or claim the movement for their own agenda.

See http://www.occupywallst.org/ to find out what this decentralized but organized protest is ACTUALLY about. There are multiple live feeds so you can actually see what is going on 24/7.

Let's face it, OUR system is broken, other wise there wouldn't be this much discontent and corruption with it. It's apparent all around the world and Canada is no exception.

I'm sure Jager has spent too much time already researching the movement. And while i might agree with some of the points of the occupiers, there are too many premises that are faulty, & too many assumptions made that are not based on reality. I don't think our system is broken. We have for too long tried to blend socialism & capitalism, which hasn't worked, & we have allowed the politicians to spend money wildly without any accountability. But the assumption that the system is broken is flawed. America as a concept was the most revolutionary political idea in human history. We have let it become co mingled with marxism, & that is what has caused the current problems. I'll also look at the grievances below..

Quote :

Do you not agree with these grievances?
1.Campaign Finance Reform
All votes are no longer equal in our Democracy. Money must be put outside of politics, or politicians will continue to pander to those who contribute the most to their campaigns, rather than their own constituencies. Specifically, we abhor the decision by the Supreme Court in Citizens United v. FEC. Corporations are NOT people.

In general, i agree.. no one likes the way money can buy a place in leadership. But the problem is equally there with the big unions & bundled 'PACs'. I don't see any solutions offered. NPR & much of the left pushes limits on the money a candidate can raise, along with who donates. They want the taxpayers to fund politicians' campaigns. But there is a fundamental flaw in paying someone to convince us to vote for them. It would also not stop outside groups from attacking the opposition. You would still have the 'bundlers' like unions & PAC's who would support their candidate. You would also have corporate money & lobbyists behind the scenes working for their agendas. I think an informed, educated electorate is a better solution. I would support a limit on donations.. say $1000 from any entity.. individual, bundle, corporation, union, etc. The problem i see with this generic grievance is the lack of specific solution.

Quote :

2.True Shared Sacrifice
While corporate profits have been skyrocketing and the wealthy have been getting wealthier, the average worker’s income has dramatically dropped. While the cost of living has exponentially increased, wages have not followed. It has been shown time and time again that tax cuts for the wealthy are NOT effective. Taxes on those who practice greed should be raised.

This is bogus. During this recession, most companies have been hit hard.. sure there are some sectors that have done ok, but not overall. The 'wealthy' have decreased. Many of them are now poor or middle class. The poor have not been affected that much. They still get welfare & food stamps. Some sectors.. housing & construction, for example, have added to the poor & taken from the middle class. Whose fault was that? Fannie Mae & Freddy Mac get any votes? Now their socialist managers have done alright.. getting big bonuses along with exorbitant salaries.. & for a poor job to boot! But the greedy construction workers are no longer in the 1%, it seems.

If we raise taxes on those who practice greed, most of those who get entitlements would have to pay taxes. There is so much fraud & corruption in the system.. based on greed & getting something for nothing. The elites' view of the humble poor with a dickensonian hand outstretched is a fantasy. The more typical entitlement recipient has worked the system to get free stuff. Some hire lawyers to get on disability.. some fraudulently get welfare, adc, food stamps, etc. Where are the protesters for this greed?

I think it is the leftist culture, now pervasive in our govt & society that is at the root of the greed & corruption. Why do they want to spend even more money on wasteful, ineffective govt programs? The govt. is a bad investment. We get little bang for the buck with our tax dollars. They waste it, give it to the greedy & their cronies.. yet we think we can give them more & they will somehow manage it better? NO!! We need to stop the flow of money to the govt. That will do more to limit the corruption than anything.

Quote :

3.Equality in Justice
This great nation was founded on liberty, but also, on equality. When the balance of justice is swayed in favor of those with wealth, the very fabric of this nation is torn apart. The decision of a judge should not be based upon the race, creed, or wealth of an individual, but rather, the content of the case.

This is a strawman. Is there a problem with justice for the disadvantaged? I agree that the justice system should be pursuing corrupt politicians, because they are the only ones who seem to get a bye on justice. This is some kind of international, generic left wing 'cause' that was just cut & pasted into the US occupy movement because it sounds good.

Quote :

4.The End of the Revolving Door
The Obama administration was supposed to bring change and hope to our country, but instead, brought us into despair and insecurity. Those working in his administration are the very people whom we are fighting against. Those who enter Washington should not be representatives of the elites, but representatives of the people. One cannot simply enter an administration, reap its benefits, and simply exit.

I think this shows a lot of disillusion with Obama.. he did not do what he promised.. welcome to politics. This only illustrates to me the problem the left has in looking for a 'messiah'. If the 'chosen one' has flaws or does not meet expectations, there is weeping & gnashing of teeth.. the world is dark & hopeless. We are dealing with humans, & we need checks & balances. We should not look to the leaders to magically bring us into the promised land. At best they should stay out of the way, at worst they pass stupid laws that interfere with the economy & personal freedom. Our electorate needs to stop buying the left wing media lie that the govt is the solution to economic problems. They only cause economic problems, not solve them.

But yes, let's end the corruption from politicians who only see public service as a means to get rich. Lets prosecute corruption. Limit contributions, donations, 'consulting', & other ways the politicians profit from their position. Stop the insider trading, the crony capitalism, giving loans to campaign contributors, etc. This can be done without scrapping the whole system.

Quote :

That's why the 99% are dissatisfied with our system, and I support them for their efforts. I would be out there with them if I didn't have a job that compensates me just enough to survive, but I'm not that content with just surviving, I want to thrive, and this system is not making that very obtainable to me or many many others. I'm extremely lucky to have a job right now, mostly because of my family.

I am definitely dissatisfied with the way the system has been running the last few decades, but i see the cause as very different. I had to get a job to support myself since my business as a home builder died with the housing crash. Many of my opportunities have been lost or diminished because of the failed social engineering experiment with the housing lending market. This was not just a normal market swing. This was caused by the liberal left wanting to 'give' everyone a house.. no money, no credit, no problem! So they throw out the baby with the bathwater & end all loans to investors, house flippers, spec builders, etc. A whole industry almost single handedly destroyed by left wing social engineering... not free market enterprise. I hope most people can see that the current economic condition was led by the housing crash. Research it. Think it out. Stop listening to comedians & pundits for your political position. If 99% of the American people want what the occupy movement is for, count me out. I'll be a 1%'er.

One man with courage is a majority.
Thomas Jefferson

"The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it."
H.L. Mencken

I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
Thomas Jefferson

http://theforeigner.no/pages/news/cold-response-plane-missing/

http://theforeigner.no/pages/news/wreckage-located-in-sweden/