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 Swingarm eaten by chain

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Will B





Swingarm eaten by chain - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Swingarm eaten by chain   Swingarm eaten by chain - Page 3 EmptyThu Jul 07, 2011 9:58 am

OK this got me worried so I decided to go and check it out, there does not appear to be any damage, I snapped some photos of the guard to show you guys to see what you think of the wear. This is a 2008 WR250X with 2100 miles.

Photobucket

Photobucket

Photobucket

I'm still not quite sure how to adjust or really check the chain tension, I took this photo as well and maybe someone could help me out. Also don't mind the dirt, I have to wash the bike and clean the chain hide

Photobucket
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Arkmage





Swingarm eaten by chain - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Swingarm eaten by chain   Swingarm eaten by chain - Page 3 EmptyThu Jul 07, 2011 10:02 am

You're fine. That's what I'd consider normal wear. It's going to get a little scuffed from normal use, that's why it's there. Take a look at the back part of it (out in the middle of the swing arm) and see how deep the wear is. That will give you a better indication of how fast the front will start wearing, or at least we think it will :)

Your chain looks too tight to me though. I'd put it closer to the low end of the spec for swing arm distance (8mm).
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Will B





Swingarm eaten by chain - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Swingarm eaten by chain   Swingarm eaten by chain - Page 3 EmptyThu Jul 07, 2011 10:12 am

OK so not trying to derail the thread but where do you measure to 8mm from? The bike was on the side stand if that makes any difference, also is there a thread that you or someone else could point me to with instruction on checking the chain?I assume that the spec you are talking about is from the TSB? I'm new to all this so please bare with me haha.
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Arkmage





Swingarm eaten by chain - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Swingarm eaten by chain   Swingarm eaten by chain - Page 3 EmptyThu Jul 07, 2011 10:24 am

Will B wrote:
OK so not trying to derail the thread but where do you measure to 8mm from? The bike was on the side stand if that makes any difference, also is there a thread that you or someone else could point me to with instruction on checking the chain?I assume that the spec you are talking about is from the TSB? I'm new to all this so please bare with me haha.

Swingarm eaten by chain - Page 3 Ctp11

Try that out. Most of us just push up with our finger... the fancy fish gauge is just a funny joke yamaha plays on us.
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Will B





Swingarm eaten by chain - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Swingarm eaten by chain   Swingarm eaten by chain - Page 3 EmptyThu Jul 07, 2011 10:41 am

Just checked it and it is between 12mm and 13mm. So I guess I should loosen it or will that chain start to loosen on it's own? I also checked the back of the guide and there is a little more wear there than the font but not a lot more wear. To loosen the chain I adjust it towards the front of the bike correct? Is there any special way to keep the wheel aligned?
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0007onWR

0007onWR



Swingarm eaten by chain - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Swingarm eaten by chain   Swingarm eaten by chain - Page 3 EmptyThu Jul 07, 2011 11:30 am

Next time you are at the grocery store or a shipper or something push on the scale with your finger so you can get an idea what 36lbs feels like, it's a lotta pushin for one finger
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Rule292

Rule292



Swingarm eaten by chain - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Swingarm eaten by chain   Swingarm eaten by chain - Page 3 EmptyThu Jul 07, 2011 11:56 am

Will B wrote:
Just checked it and it is between 12mm and 13mm. So I guess I should loosen it or will that chain start to loosen on it's own? I also checked the back of the guide and there is a little more wear there than the font but not a lot more wear. To loosen the chain I adjust it towards the front of the bike correct? Is there any special way to keep the wheel aligned?

Motion Pro makes a tool to keep the chain aligned. It's cheap so I bought one and I think (at least for a nOOb like me) it's worthwhile. Especially when sorting out things like "is this too tight or too loose"... Very happy

http://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/productDetail.do;jsessionid=49C9DDCE99ABC1A0FA75FDBA3ABC7B10?webCatId=9&webTypeId=35&navTitle=Drive&navType=type&prodFamilyId=17145&stockId=142934


And when I changed my sprocked I decided to spring for the tension tool - well, of course I used the "old" tension specs from the online manual and guess where I bought the tool at? The HARLEY dealer! wings Of course, the 2010 manual specs call for a different tension, and the Harley gauge doesn't work (but a car belt gauge now does). So now I have a belt gauge for a Harley and no Harley..... YET! Sleep
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jeffpack1957





Swingarm eaten by chain - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Swingarm eaten by chain   Swingarm eaten by chain - Page 3 EmptyWed Jul 13, 2011 10:43 am

what about machining a small delrin block for a slider?
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Arkmage





Swingarm eaten by chain - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Swingarm eaten by chain   Swingarm eaten by chain - Page 3 EmptyWed Jul 13, 2011 1:26 pm

jeffpack1957 wrote:
what about machining a small delrin block for a slider?

That's what the stock piece is...
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Jäger
Admin
Jäger



Swingarm eaten by chain - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: And Now It Can Be Told...   Swingarm eaten by chain - Page 3 EmptyWed Jul 13, 2011 6:25 pm

So... the rest of the story...

Let's start with a few pics... the sad sight I was shocked to see:

Swingarm eaten by chain - Page 3 Imgp7910

Swingarm eaten by chain - Page 3 Imgp7810

Swingarm eaten by chain - Page 3 Imgp7811

Figured I let the chain get so loose it was throwing and rubbing on the Sandman case protector...

Swingarm eaten by chain - Page 3 Imgp7911

So I parked the bike, kicked my ass a whole bunch for being so incredibly negligent I didn't notice that happening while doing regular chain maintenance, posted about it here, etc. Couldn't believe how I had been such a moron to allow that to happen - especially after I thought I was being wary of that after seeing it happen to others. But didn't understand either, as I run my chain a bit on the loose side of the adjustment range and check it regularly while doing chain lube chores. This is supposed to be caused by tight chains. Or 12 tooth sprockets if you prefer that reason. Neither of which applies to me.

Turns out nobody seems to keep these "seal protectors" in stock. Eventually, my fast-as-possible delivery "seal protector" arrived via 2nd Day air once the seller got it from Yamaha - just one, because after I got it fixed I was going to see if somebody would soon make a better aftermarket one.

Had to go to town to make an appointment with the lawyer the same day the replacement slider arrived. So I left off replacing the sprockies and chain - because they still looked more than acceptable and the chain didn't seem to have any tight or loose spots - for the next day. With a properly adjusted chain, and a new chain slider, how bad could 20 miles be?

Swingarm eaten by chain - Page 3 Imgp7912

Well, as it turned out, this bad:

Swingarm eaten by chain - Page 3 Imgp7913

Swingarm eaten by chain - Page 3 Imgp7914

After my wife told me to quit screaming and brought a crowbar out and pried me off the roof of the garage, I checked the chain tension: 8mm spacing while on the sidestand, perfect Yamaha adjustment. WTF, over?

Screw waiting for my brother to show up, I started tearing my wounded little bike apart to try and figure out what the hell was going on. Tore swingarm, linkies, shock, Yamalink etc off to check for seized bearings or collars or something. Didn't know exactly what I was looking for, as a mechanic I ain't. But I'm a jackleg machinest and I figured something had to be seized or bent or something. Everything moving and lubed. Even started measuring stuff up with micrometers and dial indicators, trying to find something that wasn't right. Didn't have the courage to throw calipers in the worn slot to see how much material was left... I figured this would be one of those cases where ignorance is bliss.

No luck with any of that, but it did allow a closer view of the damage:

Swingarm eaten by chain - Page 3 Imgp7915

Swingarm eaten by chain - Page 3 Imgp7916

Couldn't find anything wrong. I was goin' crazy here. Until I decided to check and see if I should be ordering a new rubber insert for the rear chain guide while I was ordering a couple of dozen chain sliders. And then I saw what at first seemed like a rubber part had peeled up and come adrift.

Swingarm eaten by chain - Page 3 Imgp7917

Swingarm eaten by chain - Page 3 Imgp7918

And then I suddenly realized what I was looking at:

Swingarm eaten by chain - Page 3 Imgp7919

A damned rock! Well worn in by now.

Talk about The Golden BB taking you out. What are the chances of a rock coming up off the front tire, and being perfectly aligned with the opening of the chain guide when it hit it. And not only being perfectly aligned and arriving at an instant when the chain was high enough in the guide to let it enter, but being big enough to stick and not small enough that the chain simply pulled it out the back?

To make The Golden BB effect even better, it wasn't just any kind of rock. No, it couldn't be one of the softer sedimentary rocks around that would have been quickly fractured or ground down. See that kind of waxy look? That rock is chert. For those who have never worked underground in a hard rock mine, chert is the kind of rock that makes drillers cry when they find their worksite is in chert; they drop their lunch pails so they can carry an extra bag of drill bits. It ain't as hard as steel, but hard enough - another name for chert is "flint".

Yes, what are the odds? The perfect Golden BB.

So I threw the new sprockets and chain I had on hand (14/49, 112 link chain). Once I get over being pissed off, maybe I'll go examine the old chain to see just how badly it is worn, measure the gullet on the sprockies, etc. Or maybe not...

So now the cause of what happened is solved, patch the swingarm. Toyed briefly with getting a skilled welder to fill it in, then thought of what doing that would entail, possibility of things going bad, etc. Decided to skip that idea. Filed out the damaged area and fitted a small piece of round stock that would fit in the resulting notch to provide a hard point to stop further chain wear on the swingarm should this ever happen again. Hardened it up and then fitted it in and filled the notch with JB Weld.

Swingarm eaten by chain - Page 3 Imgp7920

I had intended to take a Dremel and shape the repair to match the curve of the swingarm. Then I noticed it was close already (didn't want to shape more of the hardened JB Weld than I had to) and didn't interfere with where the swingarm slider sat, even when it was a little bit proud. So I left it and called it good.

Now I had a fixed bike (I hoped... by this point I was pretty gun shy). But while I had ordered two more swingarm sliders, they wouldn't get here for a week and I was back on foot and mountain bike again. So I decided to try my luck and see what would happen: repair the damaged "new" slider. Grabbed some Tech Plastic, a plastic/fiberglass stick I use in gunsmithing that you activate by kneading the two component parts together. I thought about JB Weld briefly, but wondered if it would be too hard or inflexible when the slider flexes, etc. So the finished repair to the slider looked like this:

Swingarm eaten by chain - Page 3 Imgp7921

Swingarm eaten by chain - Page 3 Imgp7922

I left it a little bit proud when moulding it into what remained of the front of the slider, held together by a last few bits and pieces. Thought about dressing it down to the original contours, but then decided to let the chain do that and use the wear as a bit of an indicator on what kind of contact I was getting.

So, bike back together, swingarm and pivot rod and linkage bits and pieces all cleaned up with mineral spirits and regreased with Belray Waterproof grease. Used up the inch of lowering in the rear shock while I was at it, something I've been meaning to do. I am such a shortass, my legs barely reach my feet.

Sidebar Note: HighFive isn't kidding when he says that plastic matrix the needle bearings sit in is fragile - I tore some bits and pieces out just rubbing them back and forth with a gloved finger while cleaning with mineral spirits. Not picking at them with a fingernail like HighFive did. Wife had to come out and pry me off the garage ceiling with the crowbar once again, etc. I mean, they damage REAL EASY - almost effortlessly. Nothing about that in the Service Manual...

Like HighFive, I put the bits back as best I could and hope the grease, the remaining matrix around the damaged parts, and the fit will keep all them needles where they're supposed to be. If not....

Loaded some tools up and headed out to hit some potholes and washboard to see if there would be any more instantaneous damage to the slider. But, bigger sprockies... chain tension first... hmmm.... I'm in a hurry. Yamaha says 8 - 13mm distance between chain and swingarm on sidestand. I decided to use 6mm distance between chain and swingarm with minimal pressure. With bigger sprockies and lighter pressure, closer than at the loose end of the stock adjustment range, that should be a safe chain slack setting for now. Will explore that with Sarah at a later date as I think her drive and suspension setup is pretty comparable to mine.

Link to that day trip is here.

Anyways... the good news is that everything now works as expected. Stopped to check after 5 miles, 15 miles, and 30 miles. Just a bare amount of wear on the proud parts of the repair to the slider. 300 miles later, the wear doesn't feel any different. I suspect I could use this repaired slider for thousands more miles (but I'll swap it out once my new sliders get in and keep it for a spare and a memory).

Other notes related to the repair (aside from confirming HighFive's warning).

First, I really, really like the 14/49 setup. Might be my imagination, but the drive feels a bit smoother than the stock 13/43 I've used to date. It definitely ISN'T more vibey. And the power is much more usable over the entire transmission range. I don't notice much difference in 1st as little of my riding makes use of first gear grunt. But where before I found 6th (and often 5th) useful only for low rev slab motoring with insufficient power to even pull a hill or make a smooth pass, now I find them much stronger and more useful on the highway. For true 50/50 dual sporting, I think 14/49 is pretty close to perfection. Maybe 14/48 - if I could discern a difference.

Second, mileage. Just before I put the bike away last year, I posted Hey! Where did my mileage go?. Well, it didn't come back this spring despite all the theories, and I hadn't had the time to try sorting it out after trying the usual suspects. With the rock out of the chain guide, my 50/50 dual sport ride up Redding Creek netted me 85mpg Imperial/71mpg US. Which took care of that question. How much had to do with the rock and how much with the worn (but NOT worn out) sprockies and chain? Hard to say. On the one hand, given how fast my new chain slider got eaten, I would think I got lucky because I caught it before it ate right through the swingarm in a number of days. On the other hand, perhaps the majority of the wear happened immediately when that rock was biggest, and then decreased as the rock got worn down by the chain. Until it wore on the chain enough that it went suddenly, significantly, slack.

But, in either case, my mileage is back as well. I did a steady 60mph run until the fuel light came on, ended up refueling at exactly 100 miles. Worked out to 66mpg Imperial/55mpg US. So losing the low rev, low grunt 6th gear will cost me a bit in high speed slab riding, but those higher gears are also more useful on the highway and for dual sport riding the entire gear box is much more useful.

Total cost of this little adventure: about $200 and three weeks of mostly being afoot so far. And a damaged swingarm that I really, really hope won't end up needing to be replaced.

Pan to Paul Harvey... And now you know... the rest of the story.

Won't help to identify the root factors in why some swingarms get eaten and some don't, however.

One..... Freaking... Rock. The Golden BB.
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greer





Swingarm eaten by chain - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Swingarm eaten by chain   Swingarm eaten by chain - Page 3 EmptyThu Jul 14, 2011 5:44 am

Lordy, Lordy, Lordy, what a piece of bad luck! I'll bet you slept well last night after finally sorting that mess out. Those are some good looking repairs you made, I'll bet you never have another minute's trouble. Way to go!

Sarah
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f3joel

f3joel



Swingarm eaten by chain - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Swingarm eaten by chain   Swingarm eaten by chain - Page 3 EmptyThu Jul 14, 2011 11:01 am

WOW! crazy!
Never would have guessed...
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Boondocker

Boondocker



Swingarm eaten by chain - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: sp rock et my slider   Swingarm eaten by chain - Page 3 EmptyThu Jul 14, 2011 4:06 pm

Jäger

I'm missing the part about how the rock affected the chain in a way that made the chain rub the slider too much.
Did it tighten the chain, because I thought you checked that initially?
Did it change the angle or alignment of the chain so that it was held too close to the slider? This is what I figure.

Would riding the bike backwards have dislodged the rock? Goldwings have a reverse gear!

Cheers,
Neil
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Jäger
Admin
Jäger



Swingarm eaten by chain - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Swingarm eaten by chain   Swingarm eaten by chain - Page 3 EmptyThu Jul 14, 2011 4:56 pm

Boondocker wrote:
Jäger

I'm missing the part about how the rock affected the chain in a way that made the chain rub the slider too much.
Did it tighten the chain, because I thought you checked that initially?
Did it change the angle or alignment of the chain so that it was held too close to the slider? This is what I figure.

Would riding the bike backwards have dislodged the rock? Goldwings have a reverse gear!
Chain tightness was correct; geometry was not, so chain was closer to swingarm.

The rock essentially positioned the lower (return) chain an inch closer to the bottom of the swingarm.

I don't think going backwards would have dislodged that rock. Not enough friction between the chain and the rock to grab it and pull it back out of the chain guide.
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aaronhall555

aaronhall555



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PostSubject: Re: Swingarm eaten by chain   Swingarm eaten by chain - Page 3 EmptyThu Jul 14, 2011 5:08 pm

Jäger,

Glad you figured out the problem!

When I first got my WR I ran the chain according to the specs in the manual, but it was to loose which is was caused the chain to eat through the chain slide and started grinding on the swingarm. Then I found the revised chain tension procedure which tightened up the chain quite a bit. I never replaced the chain slide and havent had a problem ever since.

This problem is definitely caused from the chain being too loose, and in your case the rock probably hid that your chain was getting loose and as the rock wore down the chain started to grind through the slider and your swingarm.

When I first noticed my swingarm being eaten I ran the bike up on the stand with the front sprocket guard off and watched what the chain was doing. The chain being too loose, the friction of the chain itself was causing the chain to following around front sprocket and basically being thrown up from the bottom of the front sprocket towards the swingarm, and it was obvious that when I was sitting on the bike and at speed that the chain would be grinding right on the swingarm.

But again, since I've tightened up the chain I've never had a problem, even with the old partway eaten chain slider. I'll also be more diligent when inspecting the chain guide, as I do not want a Golden BB....
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MotoMind





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PostSubject: Re: Swingarm eaten by chain   Swingarm eaten by chain - Page 3 EmptyTue Aug 02, 2011 8:33 pm

This thread is pretty authoritative. I wore through my slider as well, at which point I removed the sprocket cover and began to study it periodically (riding straight down the road while watching the sprocket is not easy). The mode of wear is a loose chain being flung upward toward the chain slider as it leaves the sprocket. The amount of wear is tied to the size of the sprocket, the degree of looseness in the chain, the typical angle of the swingarm (as dictated by the load, suspension settings, and terrain), and possibly the amount of wear on the front sprocket (hooked teeth will fling the chain more as it leaves the sprocket). There may also be some small contribution from RPM and/or road surface, by way of slapping induced in the chain.

In my case, the slider wore through in ~6000 miles of hard Alaska riding with a 150lb rider and 50lbs of luggage. With that amount of weight, the sag is somewhere around 40% at maximum preload. 13/48 sprocket setup. The chain and front sprocket were completely toast at that time as well.

You can see the amount of wear on the slider and my field fix here. I cut a potion of the top of the slider and used it to shim out the lower from the underside.

Swingarm eaten by chain - Page 3 B8aRK

With the slider shimmed out it lasted another 500 miles with no additional wear to the swingarm.
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greer





Swingarm eaten by chain - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Swingarm eaten by chain   Swingarm eaten by chain - Page 3 EmptyTue Aug 02, 2011 10:08 pm

Seems like this would be an excellent reference for trailside repairs and such; can we make it a sticky? Thanks

Sarah
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Akasy





Swingarm eaten by chain - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Slider   Swingarm eaten by chain - Page 3 EmptySun Aug 14, 2011 11:35 pm

With some degree of confidence I can say that the slider will wear with the chain either too tight or too loose GAHHHH
I had put on a new Primary Drive sprocket and chain setup and new slider before departing on the cross country.
I let the chain get too loose in the first 500 miles and got some wear--adjusted the chain and all was great for 4500 more. Checked the wear and chain tension daily. Today toward the end of the day the puppy sounds like a chain saw--more noise than just from the normal end of day dust chain. Stop and find the chain loose--adjust and get to camp. Check tension and the slider--not good news
Swingarm eaten by chain - Page 3 Slider
Luckily I had stuffed the old original slider in for a spare--put it on and that should get me to the Pacific--I hope.
Looks like the Primary Drive chain is good for about 5K miles--my experience says one adjust after install and it will hold until it starts to wear then you get into constant adjustments--looks like I'm there at 5000 miles.
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wristpin





Swingarm eaten by chain - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Swingarm eaten by chain   Swingarm eaten by chain - Page 3 EmptyTue Apr 03, 2012 7:43 pm

I think that the moral of this story is to change the chain slider often. I just did mine today after around 12,000 miles. Way too late. I'll keep track of the life expectancy of the new one.Swingarm eaten by chain - Page 3 Dscn1011Swingarm eaten by chain - Page 3 Dscn1012
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thumper_tx





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PostSubject: Re: Swingarm eaten by chain   Swingarm eaten by chain - Page 3 EmptyMon Jul 09, 2012 4:03 pm

Finally got around to checking mine also. Only 4 K on the bike. Chain adjusted properly.
It has definite wear and needs replacing. Does anyone happen to have the part number handy? What it is actually called?
I am going to consider a normal wear problem so I will order an extra slider.
I must not be using the right name for the part on Google.
I am going with a 14/45 to help with the wear problem.
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motokid
Moderator
motokid



Swingarm eaten by chain - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Swingarm eaten by chain   Swingarm eaten by chain - Page 3 EmptyMon Jul 09, 2012 4:19 pm

3D7-22151-00-00

14/45 gearing will suck donkeyballs.


yes - it's a absolutely a normal wear part and needs to be replaced once in a while.

I got 10,000 miles out of mine. click me <-- clicky for pictures

If yours needs replacing at 4000 miles most likely have your chain too tight.


watch this video <-- clicky for watching how much your chain moves

_________________
2008 WR250X
Gearing: 13t - 48t
Power Commander 5 / PC-V
Airbox Door Removed - Flapper glued - AIS removed
FmF Q4
Bridgestone Battlax BT-003rs
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thumper_tx





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PostSubject: Re: Swingarm eaten by chain   Swingarm eaten by chain - Page 3 EmptyTue Jul 10, 2012 10:20 am

Running 13/47 now. Pretty low for street. !4 up front will be fine.
KTW for dirt only in the near future.
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Marylucky

Marylucky



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PostSubject: Re: Swingarm eaten by chain   Swingarm eaten by chain - Page 3 EmptyWed Jul 11, 2012 12:53 pm

I Found something else when doing maintenance.

I don't ride with the front sprocket cover or any sprocket protector.
The shaft of the very bottom screw is all eaten by the chain.

I changed the slider at the begining of the year and it as started to do it again.
I was ridding with the chain too tight. Now I run it with the Yamaha specs and it's doing it again.

Is anybody have the same problem with the screw ? Soon I will not be able to screw anything in there.
Not my pictures but it's the very bottom one. It means that the chain move more than 1 inch to hit it.

I run 13/45 on the street and supermoto track and 13/47 on the dirt.

Swingarm eaten by chain - Page 3 GEDC0059-1
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sturgeon

sturgeon



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PostSubject: Re: Swingarm eaten by chain   Swingarm eaten by chain - Page 3 EmptyWed Jul 11, 2012 1:30 pm

Marylucky wrote:
I Found something else when doing maintenance.

I don't ride with the front sprocket cover or any sprocket protector.
The shaft of the very bottom screw is all eaten by the chain.

[...]

Are you missing the lower drive chain tensioner?
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Marylucky

Marylucky



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PostSubject: Re: Swingarm eaten by chain   Swingarm eaten by chain - Page 3 EmptyWed Jul 11, 2012 2:22 pm

I will check it tonight... are you talking about the chain roller near the swingarm pivot ?
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