The Official FI Mapping Area

Biglake wrote:

Im having an issue with my bike hesitating when I twist the throttle quickly from idle, it does it everytime untill the bikes totally up to temp and a little bit after its fully warmed up.
If I roll the throttle on a touch untill the revs are up a tiny bit then twist the throttle quickly its fine.
I also have a stalling issue when starting the bike for the first time in cold temps, if its below freezing the bike will start then stalll a couple of times before idling, once runing it works well.
I have a fmf Q pipe with stock header, very open airbox and the fmf programmer, my settings are 3-5-.5-8-6-4
I messed with the settings for a bit today and only made it worse, so I went back to those settings.
The one thing I did that made it a bit better was adjust the idle speed up as high as it will go.
The bike is very rideable im just nit picking it, im basicly riding around my yard trying to make it act up lol.
It may also be a cold weather related issue, as its below freezing here.
Anyone else have these issues?
Do I need to adjust to co setting?

I have same issues. I adjusted the Co from -11 stock to +2 and didn't notice a huge improvement, but throttle response was a little more crisp at 60 to 70 deg F. and the idle seemed a little smoother. Below freezing it still bogs pretty bad until warmed up.

LightFoot wrote:

dmmcd,

Thank you for valuable input, IMO. I didn't know the unit applied only one mode at a time. Your observations of the unit during actual operation cleared up some things for me.

What are your current day best FMF programmer settings so far? ..and if you would, please state your current day modifications; air box, header, muffler, etc. Next FMF programmer changes you plan to try or is CO mode the only thing you think needs a tweak?

Do you think my FMF settings require adjustment compared to those at normal altitudes due to me living at 7150 feet elevation or does the bike EFI pressure sensor do a good job of compensating for that?

Your comments regarding CO mode sound consistent with what Matt at Dobeck said. His opinion was: I should put CO mode back to zero.

The only thing CO mode at zero did with my bike: It would no longer stall when super cold like it did at -5, however, it might have a couple of stumbles just instantly off idle in the first 5 minutes. But ya' know, I'm not so concerned about the first 5 minutes - especially not if it will in any way degrade the rest of the ride or the fuel economy.

Micke S.

I don't have my notes handy, but will update later with my current settings. My mods are in my sig, but the standard Q4 pipe, AIS gone, airbox lid opened up pretty good, K&N filter. Not sure about the elevation effect. I have a similar question about the temperature sensor. How much does the stock ECU compensate for the changes it senses, and how does that affect the FMF PP settings?

I still have all the stock parts that came with the bike when I bought it. I thought of putting it back to stock, with the flapper, exup, and all the ais crap to see if the issues went away, but I am too lazy and don't have much time to tinker.

Okay, checked my notes. My current settings are 2.5, 3, 0.5, 4.5, 6, 4

This setup felt really nice and very smooth from cruise up through WOT. I don't know if it is making maximum power or not, but it goes really well. It still has the off-idle bog when cold in 1st-3rd gear, but seems to go away once warm. I was averaging 57 mpg before the temperature dropped, and the last tank (20-30 deg F. Brrrrr) got about 51 mpg. I also had the bike up to 91 mph with that setup (13-45 gearing, speedohealer), and probably could have squeaked a few more.

I haven't had it to a dyno or anything, so whenever I make a change, I try to write down the settings and my general impressions. I started by trying various recommended settings, which changed all the numbers at once. Now I am trying to fine tune one number at a time to really understand how they affect the feel. But the high temperature for this week was less than 20 deg F, so I haven't been on the bike in a little while. I am also worried the cold temps may affect the settings, so I may have to re-tweak come warmer weather. I also picked up a FMF powerbomb on eBay for a decent price, which might require some more tweaking.

I should probably put everything in a spreadsheet because my notes are starting to get all convoluted!

The off-idle stumble has caused me two problems so far:

I was leaving my parents' house one time and gassed it. Bike was cold. Bike bogged in 2nd gear, then caught, lofting the front wheel inadvertently. I rode out the wheelie for 100 feet or so, but it surprised the heck out of me. My parents were apparently watching. My mom gave me serious crap for riding like a hooligan. I am 32 years old and have 4 kids, but I guess a mom will always be a mom.

Second time, I was leaving a gas station in the morning (1/2 mile from my house, everything was still cold). I pulled out and shifted to 2nd, it bogged, then caught while I was still leaned over a bit. Next thing I knew I was lying on the ground and the bike was sliding across the road away from me. Very embarrassing, it was the first time I ever dropped a bike on the street in over 40,000 miles of riding. Only damage I could find on the bike was scrapes on the bottom of the foot peg. If that were my old SV, it would be $1k in damage.

Very oddly for January at high altitude, we've had a spate of 50's and 60's this month. I was going to ride today and try some things but I felt less than sharp.

So many permutations to try.

Matt Stoxen at Dobeck just replied in email that he thinks CO mode at +3 is too rich. Says it will run better when cold set there, but will be too rich hot. I'll knock it back to zero as suggested.

The highest I tried so far for the 2nd number (accel) was 3.5, and it felt pretty strong. I dropped it down to 3 and didn't notice a huge difference, but left it at 3 for now. I plan on adjusting this one to see what gives the strongest pull while mid-throttle accelerating.

I had the 3rd number at 1, and at WOT it felt a little flat and didn't sound quite right. Hard to explain, but it sounds better at 0.5, and seems to have more power. Consistent with those who have done actual dyno runs. The stock map is apparently quite rich at WOT and upper RPMs.

My 4th number is 4.5, but confirmed by the lights on the programmer that cruise mode is kicking in at idle. The only time it went below cruise mode was off throttle downhill engine braking. I've had it up to 8 before, but didn't have the PP mounted to the bars so I don't know what it was doing. My notes say it felt strong, but still had cold stumble.

5th number I have kept at 6 because I did have the cut-out when I first got the bike. I don't remember what it was set to when I bought it, but it was pretty screwed up.

6th number I have always had at 4 or 4.5. I may play with this one too.

Not real sure how the stock ECU is mapped, whether it is RPM based, TPS based, or a combination of the two like the Dynojet Power Commander is. I need to experiment with the behavior of the FMF PP more too. Like if you give it WOT at low RPMS, does it stay in accel mode until it gets to a certain RPM, or does it switch right to WOT mode. The 6th number probably affects that. I wonder how the ranges of the FMF correspond to the stock ECU mapping. I've only done one ride since I mounted it to the handlebars...

As for Co, mine was originally -11 and it stumbled cold. I tried 0 and it stumbled. I tried +5, +10, +15 and nothing seemed to help. I put it in Co mode and went for a ride and adjusted on the fly and found +2 gave the best throttle response, so I left it there.

One theory that I have is that the flapper in the airbox was designed to help this issue. When the engine is cold, it stays closed and chokes the air. On my old carbureted SV, I had to leave the choke partially on for the first mile or two until it was warmed up, which reduced the air intake and bumped up the throttle. An FI engine still has to warm up, and my buddy's 2001 RC51 would run a high idle for a while until warm. The WR doesn't seem to do that. It seems like it idles pretty constant, even when cold. Maybe it used the airbox flapper to provide a quasi-choke. Just a thought.

I guess the PCV with Autotune is the way to go if you really want to dig into this stuff, but the FMF PP came with my bike and I don't feel like spending $600 or more to get maybe just slightly better performance.

dmmcd,

You saved me some time on that mode 4 glitch. Thanks.

Since I'm going back to a CR9EK plug, probably not worth indexing.

Nice find on the 4th number 1/2 step thing. I'll have to look into that when the temperatures go above 15 degrees. Your warm weather is hopefully heading my way, looks like next week should be decent. I am glad the numbers seemed to work for you too, that gives me more confidence in them.

I have never heard of spark plug indexing. In theory, I guess it makes sense, especially for a 2-stroke engine or a direct injected engine. I don't know if there would be any measurable difference on the WR. I have no idea what spark plug is in my bike. I am assuming it is stock. I know on my CRF250R, there was a lot of talk and proof about how the stock plug is the best one out there, so I tend to trust the manufacturer when it comes to that. The fuel injector is on the throttle body, this is not a direct injection setup. So there is no spray into the cylinder, and there should be sufficient mixing going on as the air/fuel flows past the valves and all that. Also with a small 4 stroke head, I don't know what the temperature gradient is between the exhaust and intake sides, but I wouldn't think it would be that significant.

My friend has an Aprilia RS125, and he has issues with it running too cold. He had to tape up most of the radiator to get the engine temperature in the right range. Maybe blocking off some of the radiator on the WR would help it get up to temperature faster, especially in the winter time.

The funny thing is that these little issues all occur when mildly putting around on the bike. When I ride it hard and really rail on it, the thing works flawlessly and amazingly well. Seems like this bike was designed to be ridden hard!

dmmcd wrote:

My friend has an Aprilia RS125, and he has issues with it running too cold. He had to tape up most of the radiator to get the engine temperature in the right range. Maybe blocking off some of the radiator on the WR would help it get up to temperature faster, especially in the winter time.

I was thinking of doing this to my bike because its -10c or so on some rides.
Im going to block off the bottom 3/4 of my faltland rad guard.
By blocking off the guard and not the rad itself, the fan can still pull air through the rad if it gets hot so I cant over heat the motor.
Now to head to the garage to do that and adjust my bikes co setting, I started the bike today and it stalled 6 times before idling good its about -5c in the unheated garage.

the temp gradient from intake valves to exhaust valves is HUGE. Massive.

Maybe you need to try one of these guys:



I have much more experience playing with carbs than FI, so I am used to a good old mechanical choke. When it is cold, it takes a richer mixture to maintain combustion. So you move the lever, cut off air, and bump up the idle. My '64 chevy C10 has a manual choke and the thing starts up right away every time. I don't know if the WR has a warm up procedure built into the ECU, but it seems like it needs one, or maybe it did before I went an hacked apart the airbox and yanked off the stock exhaust? Who knows. It seems like any tuning change you make to eliminate the cold stumble might affect the behavior when warm. Once the bike is warm, it is great. And I am learning how to deal with the cold behavior. I know I can't get on it hard right out of my driveway. If I have to baby it for the first couple minutes, then that's fine with me.

edit: web searches suggest the above plugs do not work well in motos. your google may vary.

at high altitude these seem to work well.

2.5-2-0.5-5-5-4

edit: ya' know

I checked my co setting, it was set to 0.
I bumped it up to 15, I know thats richer than others run but im riding around in extreme cold temps.
It helps the bike idle smoother, but I still get the hesitation.
I will do a test, tune and posibly lean out the co when it warms back up.
I may need to lower the second setting on my fmf programer, its at 5, I never tried that yet, I messed with every setting but that one lol. That seams to be a fix for others.
I covered a little over 1/2 the rad guard with plastic from a old washer fluid jug and jip ties, it was a 2 minute job.
The bike does get up to temp while setting still, but is getting cooled off too much while moving.
This is a recommended and common mod to bikes around here that are used in the winter.
I rode it for an hour today and it was pretty normal temp wise the whole ride.
The bike will not over heat because of this, when the fan comes on it will get lots of cooling air.

I just got back from a 2 hour offroad ride, the bike worked great I didnt notice any bogging/hesitating at all, it also started fine first thing in the morning with no stalling.
I had the second # too rich, it was on 5 now its on 4.
My bike runs great now my settings are
CO 15
3-4-.5-8-6-4

good to hear you captured some improvement.

I rode again today, it got up to 40 degrees this morning, but it was very humid and damp.

I tried lowering the first two numbers, so I set it at 2-2-0.5-8-6-6 to start with. My theory, based on LightFoot's comments, is that the bog or stumble when cold just off idle may be due to too much unatomized fuel causing a too rich condition, so by leaning out the mixture maybe the stumble would improve. It did improve; rather than a complete cutout it just sort of dipped for 1/2 second. So it was a step in the right direction, but then again the temperatures were above freezing, so that may also have an affect. The acceleration felt really strong, even better than when the 2nd number was at 3. It was a really nice smooth response too. When I had it at 2-3 for the first two, there was a clear transition from one mode to the next. Having both at 2 felt good.

I set the 4th number to 8 to see if I could tell when the cruise was kicking in. When I had it at 4.5 it would be active at idle (I had two or three green lights showing on the PP). At 8, the cruise mode was not active at idle (one blinking green light), but seemed to turn on with any throttle application. There was a slight hesitation after the bike warmed up right off idle. I lowered it to 5 and found the cruise mode was still inactive at idle. The hesitation was gone, and throttle response was very good, best I have felt yet.

I also tried a 4th or 5th gear, from low RPM, full throttle run. The accel mode turns on right away, but the WOT mode doesn't turn on until a certain RPM was reached, even with the throttle pinned. It may have been only in my head, but I felt like I could hear a difference in the exhaust note when it switched to WOT mode. It felt very smooth. Of course at low RPMs it sort of lugs a little, and really starts to pull hard in the mid range.

I have about 2 miles of highway in the middle of my 45 minute commute. I found that with the settings above, it switched from cruise to WOT mode around 70-73 mph, even though the throttle wasn't pinned.

Sorry for rambling, but I have done some searching and this seems to be the only place where anyone is discussing the programmer in this sort of detail, so in the name of science I think it is good to document all this. Of course it is all based off the butt dyno, but in the real world I guess that is what really matters.

In short, current settings: 2-2-0.5-5-6-6. Feels really good at 40 deg F.

Is anyone running fmfs recomended settings?
They are 3-2-.5-8-4-4
I started out with hfs dyno tuned settings 3-5-.5-8-4-4
I had a high speed cutting out issue so I went to 3-5-.5-8-6-4 it fixed that.
I had a bog off idle while crackng the throttle so I went to 3-4-.5-8-6-4 it fixed that.
Im going to try leaner settings once it warms up.
Im slowly working my way towards fmfs settings maybe I should've followed the instructions lol.

Biglake wrote:

Is anyone running fmfs recomended settings?
They are 3-2-.5-8-4-4
I started out with hfs dyno tuned settings 3-5-.5-8-4-4
I had a high speed cutting out issue so I went to 3-5-.5-8-6-4 it fixed that.
I had a bog off idle while crackng the throttle so I went to 3-4-.5-8-6-4 it fixed that.
Im going to try leaner settings once it warms up.
Im slowly working my way towards fmfs settings maybe I should've followed the instructions lol.

I've been finding more power and better feel with leaner settings, at least when it is really cold out. The off-idle bog got better when I changed the 2nd number from 3.5 down to 2 or 2.5 below freezing, and 2.5 to 3 when above freezing.

New OEM type plug removed the cold running deficiencies caused by the iridium plug.

ok, wanting to maybe extend fmf added accel fueling:

Gonna try: Increase mode 6 from 4 to maybe 5 or 6. Could report back; ya' never know.

So after messing with my FMF programmer and dealing with engine cut off issues and making some pretty drastic adjustment wrt fuel amount and not really seeing any difference on how the bike runs (Ultimate air box mod, AIS gone, DRD Exhaust and then my GSXR can exhaust, 13/48 gearing) I decided to do some more digging so I came to this thread.

From what I can see the setting pretty much are all over the place for bikes with similar setups. I tried the settings that had some dyno validation and those were the ones I ran into issues with engine cutoff on slight acceleration at about 60mph. Dig some more digging and I found a motorcycle dyno shop about a mile from work.

Went over to the dyno shop and talked with them about what was going on. In there opinion they felt the changes being made by the FMF programmer were to general in nature and didn't necessarily give the bike what it needed at certain RPM, thottle position, and loading scenarios. For the price point they thought the fuel nanny's were a good compromise.

Long story short, I ordered a PC5 today and will be taking the bike over to their shop to have two maps generated for the bike. One will be for good performance and the other will focus on fuel economy.

Will let you know how it goes in a couple of weeks.