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 fuel pump problem

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dirtytrixx400

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Sat Sep 19, 2009 9:32 am

greer wrote:
The bike I bought has an extended warranty. But before I bought it, I called Yamaha a couple of times to make sure the warranty was fully transferrable to me, and then on to the next owner should I decide to sell it. The second time I called, they put me on hold a minute while they pulled the file documenting everything about me, the bike, and our first conversation. I'm figuring they do all calls that way. That's why I think you two (and anyybody else who's experienced a pump issue) should call. Get it documented and on file. Seems that would have to help cover you later on.

Sarah

yes,i understand your point on reporting this.
i was planning on talking with my dealer about it on my next visit there anyways......in person,instead of over the phone.
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greer




PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Sat Sep 19, 2009 9:48 am

Just to be clear, I'm talking about http://www.yamaha-motor.com/ and the 1-800 customer service #.

I don't mean to preach at you. Best of luck and please keep us posted.

Sarah
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dirtytrixx400

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Sat Sep 19, 2009 10:09 am

greer wrote:
Just to be clear, I'm talking about http://www.yamaha-motor.com/ and the 1-800 customer service #.

I don't mean to preach at you. Best of luck and please keep us posted.

Sarah

yes...i understand what your talking about...making sure it is reported to someone on a higher level than the dealer.

i will post up any more info or problems that i encounter....
i was thinking that maybe i could get some/any info on the pump from a in-person visit to the dealer instead of a phone call.
there may not have been enough problems reported on it for it to even be an issue yet.
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dirtytrixx400

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Sat Sep 19, 2009 12:00 pm

OOk wrote:
dirtytrixx400 wrote:
well it has cooled off here in the past week or so to the mid 80's.
it had been in the low-mid 90's it seemed like forever this year.

the day it did this was one of the coolest days i had gotten to ride in awhile....mid 80's.

Hmm, ya your issue may be possibly stranger than my issue. Out here it was in the 70's-80's and as the temps raised the issue seemed to get worse for me. The first time it completely failed was in the morning around 10:45, bike was sitting in direct sunlight and it was probably mid to high 70's. Maybe direct sunlight and rain are bigger factors than ambient air temp??? Dunno, but I'm 100% positive I can reproduce mine given the right circomstances.

well at least we have more "minds" thinking on it than just each by ourselves.

i was thinking that the heat from it being above the engine would pose the worst heat problem,but with it being inside the tank with the fuel would keep it out of serious high temps.
i've run mine down to the low fuel light comming on only a cpl times(and i had no problems then) and i would think that would cause the greatest heat issue....a small amount of fuel in the tank would certainly allow the tank and pump to be at a higher temp vs. a full tank. and i've done this on rides where we had alot of stops during them that would allow alot of heat to absorb into the pump/tank.

i'll add what i did or actually what i could do when mine quit....
i thought right away that maybe the lean angle switch had moved when i stopped and that was preventing it from pumping. i rocked and leaned and shook the bike in all directions,no difference.
i thought heat...vapor lock,took the fuel cap off...no venting or pressure noticed and the tank overall just didn't feel hot at all. i was also thinking that a fuel injected bike probably couldn't even suffer vapor lock anyways....still no luck.
i tried banging on the tank,next to the fuel cap (with only my hand) hoping
that maybe some vibration would possibly get the pump to do something...no luck.
i switced the key switch and the run/off switch on and off numerous times and at first i got nothing then after several times i got a faint click....then the click(sounded like a relay) grew slightly more pronounced,but still no pump.
at this point is where i decided that the pump had just plain died and i should just start pushing it out of the woods. at a short distance from where we had stopped when it died there was a pretty good hill that i needed to go down,so i thought i'd at least try rolling it off going down this hill...still thinking..no pump no run,plain and simple...anyways this time when i turned on the switch getting ready to go down this hill...the pump came on ...lol
it cranked up and i beeped my horn a cpl times so my friends would hear me and not take off.
they came over to where i was at and we decided that while it was running we should head back towards where they had parked their trucks. after we got in a area that it would be easy to rescue me i cut it off and listened to what it would or wouldn't do again when switching it on. this time and the next cpl times the pump came back on,but sounded weak or like it was straining and also made a squeaking sound. after i did this only on maybe the 3rd or 4th time...turning it on and off...the pump on this try and ever since went back to sounding strong or sounding normal again and no more squeaking.

the point i'm getting at by going back over my story is that it started working again with it building/absorbing more heat,and i was in the sun most of the time too during this ordeal...lol...i even got a decent sunburn from this.

now...since it did not completely fail and is apparently running again as normal...it makes it only a guessing game to diagnose. that was my main reason for calling the dealer and speaking to the service manager....i was wanting to find out if there had been a service bulletin or possibly a recall or something out there on it.

i rode it probably as hard as i ever had during the rest of that day to see if i could get it to act up anymore....by hard i mean i ran it up to top speed several times going thru the gears with the throttle hitting the stop...then maybe another cpl hours of trail riding and then riding the 30 or so miles back home on the street with speeds of 65-70 at times and some regular stop and go in-town traffic too.

so far since then it hasn't given any more problems. but i haven't gotten to go out on it again for any length of time or distance again...yet. just the one 11mile round trip to the walmart deal.
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Chrispy1200

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Sat Sep 19, 2009 1:15 pm

This is beginning to sound more and more like a fuel pump relay issue than the fuel pump itself and for some reason it's not throwing a code. I haven't studied it enough but maybe there an easy way to bypass the relay next time this happens ?
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dirtytrixx400

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Sun Sep 20, 2009 11:06 am

yep....no CEL and no codes stored.

a failsafe method or bypassing something to "limp home" would be great.....but i don't think we can get around any of the parts related to the fuel system on a injected bike to do that.
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0007onWR

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:10 am

Chrispy1200 wrote:
This is beginning to sound more and more like a fuel pump relay issue than the fuel pump itself and for some reason it's not throwing a code. I haven't studied it enough but maybe there an easy way to bypass the relay next time this happens ?

Back to basic's
A relay is not capable of making the pump squeel
Pressure relief stuck open could allow the pump to run with no load, might sound different
Bushing in the pump motor could make for a squeel and weird sound as well as possibly the pump not turning
Relay would mean dead silence and a distinct non running condition

There is a possibility that a bad ground could do all of the above but you would think that with the current involved it would melt a wire instead of fixing itself

It can only be the pump motor
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KNjonjo




PostSubject: Recall in Japan   Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:05 am

Not sure if this has been mentioned before but it appears that in Japan there is a recall on the fuel pump problem for several models including the WR250R & WR250X. The affected chassis numbers are DG15J-000089 - DG15J-004274. The info is in japanese so for a rough translation, have a look at http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&tl=en&u=http://www.yamaha-motor.co.jp/recall/mc/campaign/2009-05/fuel-pump/index.html
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SheWolf
Alpha Rider
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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:10 am

So far no problems here with my pump. thumb Actually I haven't had ANY problems with this bike electrically or mechanically. Well built bike.

_________________
A wolf's voice echoed down the mountain 'Share the bounty of the hunt with your brothers and sisters, and forever be strong and free.'
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mwakey

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:14 pm

KNjonjo wrote:
Not sure if this has been mentioned before but it appears that in Japan there is a recall on the fuel pump problem for several models including the WR250R & WR250X. The affected chassis numbers are DG15J-000089 - DG15J-004274. The info is in japanese so for a rough translation, have a look at http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&tl=en&u=http://www.yamaha-motor.co.jp/recall/mc/campaign/2009-05/fuel-pump/index.html

VERY INTERESTING! Thanks for the heads up. I will be on the look out for a recall notice or service bulletin from Yamaha for the US bikes.
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Chrispy1200

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Mon Sep 21, 2009 9:09 pm

0007onWR wrote:
Chrispy1200 wrote:
This is beginning to sound more and more like a fuel pump relay issue than the fuel pump itself and for some reason it's not throwing a code. I haven't studied it enough but maybe there an easy way to bypass the relay next time this happens ?

Back to basic's
A relay is not capable of making the pump squeel
Pressure relief stuck open could allow the pump to run with no load, might sound different
Bushing in the pump motor could make for a squeel and weird sound as well as possibly the pump not turning
Relay would mean dead silence and a distinct non running condition

There is a possibility that a bad ground could do all of the above but you would think that with the current involved it would melt a wire instead of fixing itself

It can only be the pump motor


True, I forgot about the noises. I was focused on the intermittent nature of the problem.
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OOk




PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Tue Sep 29, 2009 5:15 pm

***UPDATE***UPDATE***UPDATE***

So I called Yamaha NA and told them about my situation: bike won't start when warm probably bad fuel pump and bike is out of warranty. They took down my info and started a customer service claim based on my vin, but couldn't verify whether or not they would cover the bike out of warranty. Said they need to talk to a Yamaha service manager that has looked at the bike before they could give me any info. So i was stuck with the decision to either take a chance and drop the bike off at a Yamaha dealer (and possibly get stuck with paying for the fix if Yamaha denied my claim) or fix it myself. I decided to take that chance and I dropped it off at a local dealer on Saturday (I was feeling lucky,haha). I just got a call today from them saying that Yamaha WILL cover the bike in good faith even though I am not the original owner and the bike's warranty was up in April!!! WOOHOO!!!!
Bike should be up and running (reliably) in a week or so!! Super excited about it. I love the bike but was kinda peev'd at getting stuck with a lemon fuel pump and so kind of killed the new bike glow! haha.

BTW, took me a while to find this thread, didnt realize there was a new subsection!!!
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dirtytrixx400

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Tue Sep 29, 2009 7:35 pm

glad you are getting your pump covered . let us know if it sounds different(the pump) or anything after you get it back.

since i started this thread i've gone back to TT forum and read on what's been posted there....seems for the most part it's the same story there too.

i don't have anything new to say for my deal.....it's been raining alot during the time it happened till now,but i've ridden it a cpl times after work...just around my neighborhood on short quick rides and haven't had any more incidents.

i did notice for the first time the other night...if you have the kill switch off when you turn on the ignition/key switch and then turn on the kill switch while the instrument panel is "booting up" that the pump will come on,but if you wait till after the instrument panel has set and only the nuetral light is on and then turn on the kill switch the pump will not come on and prime...but it will still start right up so i'm sure the pump energizes as soon as i hit the starter button. the pump always comes on and primes with the kill switch on and then turning on the key switch everytime....well except for that day it first let me down.
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greer




PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:14 pm

Glad to hear the good news, OOk.
dirtytrixx400, we've got our fingers crossed for you.
That recall in Japan is sure interesting, I figure that only helps our case here.

Sarah
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dirtytrixx400

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:24 pm

thanks for the crossed fingers...lol.
i'm still good on my warranty since i bought the bike new in march of this year.

i am really impressed with them picking up the repair for OOK.

i also figure it's only a matter of time before they issue a recall on whatever range of bikes that are affected here.
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BluePill

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:46 pm

KNjonjo wrote:
Not sure if this has been mentioned before but it appears that in Japan there is a recall on the fuel pump problem for several models including the WR250R & WR250X. The affected chassis numbers are DG15J-000089 - DG15J-004274. The info is in japanese so for a rough translation, have a look at [url=http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&tl=en&u=http://www.yamaha-motor.co.jp/recall/mc/campaign/2009-05/fuel-pump/index.html
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&tl=en&u=http://www.yamaha-motor.co.jp/recall/mc/campaign/2009-05/fuel-pump/index.html[/quote[/url]]

Good info. From the looks of it, a lot of bad pumps are out there. They seem to know what causes the problem (Impeller rubbing against its housing), so a revised design is probably being made now. As soon as enough of the new design gets shipped to the USA we should see a recall here.
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OOk




PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Wed Oct 07, 2009 5:43 am

Just got a call from the dealer, bike is done and ready to pick up!!! w00t!!!!!! Hope to find a ride to pick it up in a day or two!

BluePill wrote:


Good info. From the looks of it, a lot of bad pumps are out there. They seem to know what causes the problem (Impeller rubbing against its housing), so a revised design is probably being made now. As soon as enough of the new design gets shipped to the USA we should see a recall here.

This doesn't make sense to me. If they haven't updated the fuel pump then why does this issue only affect early 08 models and why does it
seem that bikes that have had the pump replaced under warranty not re-offended, so to speak? There would be no point in replacing the pump
if they're just replacing it with another broken one? The pumps fail VERY quickly, in under 1500 miles it seems.

Anyway, I just hope this new pump holds (lol). I will update with new info as I put more miles on the bike.
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greer




PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Wed Oct 07, 2009 7:13 am

Glad the bike is ready OOk. Let us know if the dealer shares any info when you pick up the bike.

Sarah
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0007onWR

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Wed Oct 07, 2009 3:55 pm

OOk wrote:
Just got a call from the dealer, bike is done and ready to pick up!!! w00t!!!!!! Hope to find a ride to pick it up in a day or two!

BluePill wrote:


Good info. From the looks of it, a lot of bad pumps are out there. They seem to know what causes the problem (Impeller rubbing against its housing), so a revised design is probably being made now. As soon as enough of the new design gets shipped to the USA we should see a recall here.

This doesn't make sense to me. If they haven't updated the fuel pump then why does this issue only affect early 08 models and why does it
seem that bikes that have had the pump replaced under warranty not re-offended, so to speak? There would be no point in replacing the pump
if they're just replacing it with another broken one? The pumps fail VERY quickly, in under 1500 miles it seems.

Anyway, I just hope this new pump holds (lol). I will update with new info as I put more miles on the bike.

There are reasons why one bike has a problem and not another
One is manufacturing tolerance, one pump may be perfect and another slightly under or oversize perhap's, they can correct the problem mid stream to improve consistancy
The other is that there are often more than one vendor making identical spec parts, one vendor may have a problem and the other not
Wear and tear on machinery that makes or measures the component's, tool breakage etc
Most importantly, each part is marked and the factory know's what serial number got what run of parts from what vendor
It goes on and on, the factory know's where the bad parts are and they track failure rates well below 1%
It makes good sense that bad parts fail rapidly, warrantable problems very seldom happen at high mileage
This also explains why a company will warranty one bike and refuse another, if a unit has a similar issue on a unit outside the serial range it is probably a different problem, the parts always look the same to you and I but they may be completely different
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dirtytrixx400

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:16 pm

just touching base here again on this thread....
my pump has not acted up again....yet. going on everything i've read it's still only a matter of time though before it dies for good. as of now though it sounds as good as it did new.

i'm wondering if anyone who has replaced their's have had any more fuel related problems.
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dirtytrixx400

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:24 pm

i've only been able to get in around a cpl hundred more miles of riding since the last time i posted here,but my pump is still hanging in there.

it also seems like the reports of bad pumps have stopped ....
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mwakey

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:39 pm

dirtytrixx400 wrote:


it also seems like the reports of bad pumps have stopped ....

That might be because it's winter in most places and the temps are down. The pumps were failing mostly in the heat of summer.
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Noppy




PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Fri Jan 01, 2010 6:19 am

We drive old Volvo's here and in summer our injection pumps fail too.

We get them pumping again by the side of the road in two ways:

1. We hit the pump with the bottum of a hammer
2. We turn around the + and - for a second to allow it to spin backwards

Further more a nice fine filter to keep out all the debree. You may find them on eBay
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dirtytrixx400

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Tue Feb 02, 2010 11:55 pm

still going strong....no more problems. only got to put a couple hundred more miles of riding on it since i last posted on this thread.

i'm thinking maybe my problem may have been due to the loose ground terminal on my battery i found shortly after that episode. lol...i know probably not...but positive wishful thinking keeps me from worrying too much about it.
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Chadx




PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Fri Mar 19, 2010 9:19 am

A loose ground wire will cause all sorts of oddities. Keep us posted as the temps heat up this spring and you get in some more hot weather riding.
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