No Toil Filter sealing concern

I just got one of these in for my wr250r, and have some real concerns with how this filter seals.

The OEM filter has a fairly solid rubberish gasket, which follows the cage well when twisting the filter into place.

The No-Toil doesnt, its just filter foam, and when you are slipping, pushing, and twisting that filter/cage around inside the airbox, its real easy on the backside of the filter, to have the filter pull away from the cage. Happened to me several times, and verifying by slightly opening the front side, and see where the cage and filter are. In some cases, not much filter was over the cage seat.

This concerns me. I know folks are running these, and stating they filter clean, but it concerns me as its so easy to not get a good seal on the backside with these.

Personally, I dont find it to be a very good design.

Is the new filter oval-shaped like the stock one?
Some have bought the wrong filter, one for a WR-250F, not a WR-250R.

I like the Twin Air filter.
Fits very well and securely.

no doubt its the correct filter, I just dont like/trust the sealing, as the seal is just foam filter material, instead of a gasket of some sort.

Its so easy while you are twisting/inserting the filter into the airbox, to loose the seal.

the stock yamaha filter has a bonded gasket to the foam filter, and a fairly tight fit of the cage to the filter. The no toil has neither.

I greased the foam anyways, although since foam, the grease pretty absorbed into the filter material anyways, so its a psychological protection for the seal...:)

Some of the finest oiled foam dirt bike air filters use just foam at the sealing surface.
That's how Twin Air filters are, and a whole lotta' riders have trusted those for decades.

The stock Yamaha filter uses foam, too, but it's a made of more dense material.

I'm less concerned over the gasket material, than I am the poor fit of the seal/foam over the cage. Twisting that filter in there to align with the throat, is sooo easy for the filter foam to pull away from the cage, and give you a poor, or no seal.

A real gasket material would avoid that.

And BTW, K/N doesnt use foam gaskets, OEM's dont use it, why is it acceptable for these filters?

That's simply the way it's been done for decades, and it seals out the dirt just fine.
So, as you say, it's more about how well the filter fits the cage than anything else.
I, too, have found that some brands of filters fit their cages better than others.

Ironically, I feel the OEM Yamaha filter, which I still have on a shelf wrapped in a plasitc bag, fit too loosely for my own comfort, and the reason I use a Twin Air brand is because I actually felt the original Yamaha filter was too loose and floppy and easy to disturb the sealing edge.
I can make it work just fine while installing it, but more care must be taken.

Since this thread is about No Toil, my beef with them is their whole easy-to-clean-in-your-sink-with-soap-and-water-and-it-doesn't-make-a-mess-while doing-so marketing campaign.
Why do you think it cleans off the filter with just soap and water?
That's because it's wimpy stuff, basically, and a petrolium oil like Maxima FFT, which requires a solvent to cut through the oil, is the way I go.

I do think, at least, that using any brand of foam filter oil is better than none, or using some silly concoction like motor oil, bar and chain oil, or Wesson cooking oil.

any filter that doesnt have a rubberised sealing lip should be intalled with a filter rim grease around the sealing face. No-toil sell one specifically designed to work with there A/F oil.

I like your point on filter oil, and agree, I'll switch to Maxima FFT.

How do you like the twinair, they state its a smaller filter, is that actually the case?

A smaller filter would be nicer inside that tight box.

I use a mix of 90wt and bearing grease for a filter seal. Although I think I'll switch to trailer grease. Its tackier.

Red Ram or Chevron Ultra Duty II works excellent. Red, tacky grease that stays put.

jeffpack1957 wrote:

I like your point on filter oil, and agree, I'll switch to Maxima FFT.

How do you like the twinair, they state its a smaller filter, is that actually the case?

A smaller filter would be nicer inside that tight box.

The Twin Air is just fine.
I can't really say it's physically smaller with a WR-250R or WR-250X, though.
If it is smaller, it's miniscule.

With my 2009 Yamaha WR-250F, however, the Twin Air is noticably smaller than the stock one.

SheWolf wrote:

Red Ram or Chevron Ultra Duty II works excellent. Red, tacky grease that stays put.

Yea, forgot about that, got a ton of the Ultra Duty for my heavy equipment, stuff sticks like glue.

I've had enough of this thing. I even tried using the stock filter frame. Using machinist marking paste to verify seal matchup's, and there's no way this seals well, unless you are lucky to get it in just right, and the cage doesn't slip[ within the filter while you are twisting it into place.

Its just a piss poor design and fit. I'll stick with the stock until I can find something thats better designed.

If anyone wants this POS and filter oil, its yours.. I'm in Puyallup Washington.

as an FYI, I've found the Moose Racing filter for the wr250r has a neoprene base for sealing, so no open cell foam, but an actual seal.

Just got my moose racing filter in. I believe it to be a vastly superior design, having a real gasket. Some red Chevon Ultra Duty grease, and Maxima FFT filter oil, and I'm good to go.

At least 1 positive from the no -toil, I used the higher flow cage from it, instead of the yammie :)

YZEtc wrote:

Since this thread is about No Toil, my beef with them is their whole easy-to-clean-in-your-sink-with-soap-and-water-and-it-doesn't-make-a-mess-while doing-so marketing campaign.
Why do you think it cleans off the filter with just soap and water?
That's because it's wimpy stuff, basically, and a petrolium oil like Maxima FFT, which requires a solvent to cut through the oil, is the way I go.

I do think, at least, that using any brand of foam filter oil is better than none, or using some silly concoction like motor oil, bar and chain oil, or Wesson cooking oil.

No-toil is some of the best oil there is. I have been using it since it came out. It does not wash out with soap and water as you say, it washes out with their cleaner. Water doesn't break it down at all. It makes your filters last longer because it isn't being dunked in solvents. The Rim grease also just falls off when you soak your filter in the cleaner. Its just so much easier because everything is biodegradable so it can go down the sink. Or put in the dishwasher or washing machine if you have several to do at the same time. I know MX guys who would wait and do 10 at a time in the Washer and the come out perfect.

I'll stick with the Maxima FFT, and Moose Filter.

Maxima FFT for me, too.

There are a lot of opinions in this thread but not much fact, I use twin air, no toil and stock filters and they all have their ups and downs but none of them can be cleaned with soap and water. I have never used an oil or grease that can be washed out like that.

No toil oil is amazing, some of the tackiest stuff I have ever used and it really does wash out with their cleaner as easy as they say. I used to use bell-ray and the inside of my filters would get a small amount of dirt in them after two major dirt rides however this has never happened with my no toil oil.

Now for the seal issue, I do agree that no toil is hard to get sealed however I also find the stock and twin air filters to be the same, it just takes a bit of extra care and time to make sure you get it in good. Also if you use rim greas as it is designed to use any poor seal is taken care of.

And before I get rolled, I use the above mentioned filters on a 2012 WR250R, 2004 KX 250 and a 1997 Polaris 4x4, so I am speaking from experience not what I read on the interweb!

Chiming in on this one. I also use twin air filters and no toil with their rim grease. Have used it since 2004 in many different bikes. The oil and cleaner is awesome and there is no better way to clean an air filter (especially in the kitchen sink). I did buy their filter for this model WR250R and found it was a loose/poor fit. All other models I have purchaced for fit great. Of the 30+ dirtbikes I have owned over the years this airbox is the worst for filter fittment.

FWIW my no-toil filter has been sitting in the attic for 4 years. I never had confidence in the seal either.

I didn't think fitting the air filter back into the airbox was terrible.
I can see somebody not lining it up properly if they're not aware of what they're doing, but not too bad.

I was not a fan of how the stock filter had a loose fit over the stock filter cage.
The Twin air filter fit much better.

If you want an air filter/airbox design that makes putting the air filter back in place a pain, try a Honda CRF450X.
Do this bike a dozen times and you'll never complain again. :)

I know this tread is old but I have noticed that once you get the filter cage to line up with the metal lip on the air intake track then the cage pushes down on the filter creating a seal that is very tight. No matter what filter you use I don''t see how dust would be able to get around this seal even without rim grease.

That's true, and that's why I don't bother with any kind of filter sealing grease.

If you get it right, just the oiled filter pressed down against the sealing edge of the airbox will seal just fine and dandy.
If you don't get it right and have the foam filter slip off the filter cage while installing, or install the filter and filter cage a bit crooked, you can have a leak.

If you want to see what you are trying to achieve with where the filter cage and airbox meet, test fit the bare cage (without the foam filter) into the airbox.